Okay, so. In the span of the last few days, I’ve:
1. Discovered I’m being audited by the IRS. They believe I owe then many thousands f dollars, because of a rather blindingly obvious error on their side–they seem to be counting the small business income I made in 2002 twice. Yes, they’re clearly in the wrong; no, I entertain no hope that that means this will be an easy mess to fix.
2. Came into work and discovered my cable modem connection down. Someone climbed up the pole outside the building, cut the cable going into my office, and then sabotaged the cable junction box. WTF?
3. Heard from the company that I’m looking to work for in Boston; they may not be hiring for the position ’til August. August???
This is in addition to all the things going on in my romantic life, not the least of which is the collapse of my eighteen-year relationship with Kelly. Observant viewers will notice that I have not posted anyting about that in my journal.
There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is I don’t feel any particular benefit will be gained by airing our mutual laundry in a public forum. That has not, however, stopped the email from coming in–most of it from people I don’t know and have no idea who they are or what interest they may have in my romantic life, and much of it quite nasty.
It seems, for reasons I’m not quite clear on, there are a significant number of people in the world–people who don’t know Kelly and I and have never met either of us–who feel as though they have some kind of personal stake in our relationship. And judging from the tone of some of the mail that’s landed in my inbox, they feel personally threatened, attacked, or insulted that Kelly and I are separating.
I find this quite weird, to be frank. I’m not quite sure what’s motivating this emotional investment on the part of people who are, when it comes right down to it, strangers–but it seems as if the end of our relationship represents something that people find personally threatening. Some of it could simply be a case of schadenfreude; there always have been and always will be those who take pleasure in the misfortunes of others, and the only way to amuse some people is to slip and fall on an icy pavement. For others, of course, it’s comforting–it reinforces the notion that anyone who’s polyamorous is a bad person. For still others, perhaps it’s the same thing that motivates people to write hate mail to the villains on their soap operas.
What these people don’t seem to realize, though, apart form the fact that we all have our own lives to lead, is that this is not a question of choosing one person over another. I’ve done that in the past–and the person I’ve chosen has always been Kelly. No, this is a question of choosing a way of life which does not compromise who I am as a person. Were I to lose my relationships with Shelly and Xtina tomorrow, I would not believe that I have made a mistake; I am not choosing those relationships over my relationship with Kelly.
I doubt, however, that most of the people sending me email would understand that. It’s not even about me at all; these people don’t know me, and see in me only a reflection of their own attitudes and fears.
I’m sorry to hear about the breakup. I know it’s difficult to get through. That you’re also being mailed about it in the manner you are is just plain ugly. You all have my sympathy and an ear if you need it.
moonlight – hiding out from Usenet, lately.
I’m sorry to hear about the breakup. I know it’s difficult to get through. That you’re also being mailed about it in the manner you are is just plain ugly. You all have my sympathy and an ear if you need it.
moonlight – hiding out from Usenet, lately.
Going by the numbers:
1) I’ve always been fascinated by the concept of evil against evil. This is no exception. I do wish you luck, however, as a victory for you is only *probably* a catastrophe for the rest of the human race. With the IRS there is no doubt.
2) You’d be amazed at the things that Ryan will do for a dollar.
3) No witty comment here. That just sucks.
Re: Divorce) I certainly don’t claim to have any special insight, at least beyond the fact that I personally know all of the parties directly involved and consider all of them to be friends, but I don’t think that any outside commentary that’s critical is appropriate. I don’t think that there is “fault” in this situation. What I see is a truckload of hurt, confusion, fear, and misunderstanding as three of the coolest people I know find themselves in a situation with, at least in the short term, no happy solution- just different flavors of unhappiness.
I think you’re all handling things as best you can. There’s suckage aplenty to go around, but as I see the strength, honesty, and dignity with which you’re ALL handling this agonizing situation I’m reminded of why I’m proud to count you all as friends.
Going by the numbers:
1) I’ve always been fascinated by the concept of evil against evil. This is no exception. I do wish you luck, however, as a victory for you is only *probably* a catastrophe for the rest of the human race. With the IRS there is no doubt.
2) You’d be amazed at the things that Ryan will do for a dollar.
3) No witty comment here. That just sucks.
Re: Divorce) I certainly don’t claim to have any special insight, at least beyond the fact that I personally know all of the parties directly involved and consider all of them to be friends, but I don’t think that any outside commentary that’s critical is appropriate. I don’t think that there is “fault” in this situation. What I see is a truckload of hurt, confusion, fear, and misunderstanding as three of the coolest people I know find themselves in a situation with, at least in the short term, no happy solution- just different flavors of unhappiness.
I think you’re all handling things as best you can. There’s suckage aplenty to go around, but as I see the strength, honesty, and dignity with which you’re ALL handling this agonizing situation I’m reminded of why I’m proud to count you all as friends.
Of course they’re threatened
Think about it a minute. You’ve got the site, you’ve got the yahoogroup. People are looking to YOU as an example of mono-poly relationships working.
Of COURSE they’re threatened if it doesn’t work out.
If OLQ broke up, it would be exactly the same, I expect. (For the record, this does NOT keep me in my marriage. Nor, I expect, did it yours).
Re: Of course they’re threatened
What’s a mono-poly?
Re: Of course they’re threatened
Any relationship in which one partner identifies as monogamous, and another as polyamorous.
Re: Of course they’re threatened
Agreed. I am not one of the people who has been emailing you — what good would that possibly do? — but I have to say that what has happened between you and Kelly has been one of the examples that has caused me, in particular, to swear off entering into a poly relationship ever again. While I no longer look to the list (and the journals) for reassurance that a poly-mono pairing can work, I am probably not the only one who, while your relationships appeared to be working out, saw you as a beacon of hope for my own relationship.
-sarameonblue
Of course they’re threatened
Think about it a minute. You’ve got the site, you’ve got the yahoogroup. People are looking to YOU as an example of mono-poly relationships working.
Of COURSE they’re threatened if it doesn’t work out.
If OLQ broke up, it would be exactly the same, I expect. (For the record, this does NOT keep me in my marriage. Nor, I expect, did it yours).
Sympathies.
Sympathies.
Re: Of course they’re threatened
What’s a mono-poly?
I’m so sorry so many things are going wrong for you.. My god, any one of those things would devastate many people. Being audited..UGH!!! The cable was cut intentionally? That’s fucked up. Having relationship break ups is horrific enough without other people attacking you about it. {{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}
I’m so sorry so many things are going wrong for you.. My god, any one of those things would devastate many people. Being audited..UGH!!! The cable was cut intentionally? That’s fucked up. Having relationship break ups is horrific enough without other people attacking you about it. {{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}
Re: Of course they’re threatened
Any relationship in which one partner identifies as monogamous, and another as polyamorous.
So sorry to hear of all your troubles. I think the best I can offer is some commiseration over the IRS–I still need to fix our taxes from last year as well. They think we owe them many thousands of dollars more than we do, because we accidentally printed out the previous year’s taxes when trying to submit them the second time (the first time we e-filed, and it got lost in the ether). Good luck getting it sorted out.
(hugs)
So sorry to hear of all your troubles. I think the best I can offer is some commiseration over the IRS–I still need to fix our taxes from last year as well. They think we owe them many thousands of dollars more than we do, because we accidentally printed out the previous year’s taxes when trying to submit them the second time (the first time we e-filed, and it got lost in the ether). Good luck getting it sorted out.
(hugs)
OK so here goes the abridged version:
See Kelly and Franklin.
See Kelly complain.
See Franklin and Shelly.
Complain Kelly complain.
See Franklin smile at Shelly.
Shelly likes Franklin.
Kelly says no! No Franklin no!
See Kelly cry. Cry Kelly Cry.
Now everyone is mad at Franklin.
Bad Franklin. Bad, bad, bad!
Dude, it is a public forum and you haven’t said shit about it. It’s all one sided. Hers. Without your voice, you get to take the slam from any and all things written about you. “Poor me” does nothing to garner sympathy from me, I think everyone takes their own wins and losses. I haven’t said squat because quite frankly, it is none of my business and I know it. But, for what it is worth, if this had happened without the word “poly” attached, it’a been just another breakup. As it is, it is “just another breakup.”
One more thing. Aloofness brings contempt. Everyone pulls out a hanky for someone who is crying, a stoic face gets squat.
Good luck in whatever direction your path takes you!
It might be public, or it might also be someone’s personal (albeit with some dispute) journal. She has a right to use it as whatever she would like, although realizing that what is typed is public domain is something to keep in mind. I am dubious about taking either road. I have a feeling it is more cathartic than vindictive. Keep that in mind. But what do I know, I am neutral. I just hate to see people hurt each other.
Well, I’m a part of the polyfamilies group and I follow your journal. I was curious about the lack of posts related to Kelly, but I really thought it would be none of my business and impolite of me to ask. ESPECIALLY since I don’t actually have a ‘real life’ or even an extensive ‘on line’ friendship with you.
When and if you were ready to reveal it or talk about it — is entirely your deal.
I think I owe it to myself to extend my reply a bit. First, to you anomynous posters..phooey, if you can’t have guts enough to post with your ID, then who can take you seriously>?
I think the answer to the “Why are people taking this personally?” is the fact that…like it or not, you ALL have put yourself into a position where you have gathered a fan club of sorts. Not exactly like EastEnders, but enough to draw a crowd when the gloves are getting laced up. Plus, as AD HOC poster kids for Poly and all that is gracious, the rest of us strugglers with what you find effortless now have a chink in the facade to shove in the daggers. I sure didn’t choose to post my laundry in public. But some of you did. It just seems to be unbalanced. Seems like a commentary of the pitfalls of Poly from someone who has held a high regard in Poly matters would be expected.
ANNNNNDDDD, lest we forget, only a few of us have actually heard the real deal face to face, and even then not the whole story. I said it before, none of my business, I will hold to that and make this my final answer.
Good luck to all three, four (or more) of yas.
OK so here goes the abridged version:
See Kelly and Franklin.
See Kelly complain.
See Franklin and Shelly.
Complain Kelly complain.
See Franklin smile at Shelly.
Shelly likes Franklin.
Kelly says no! No Franklin no!
See Kelly cry. Cry Kelly Cry.
Now everyone is mad at Franklin.
Bad Franklin. Bad, bad, bad!
Sorry, but having been in the middle of the shit storm that is a poly divorce where you are actually living with your ex AND your ex’s lover, this is one of the harshest, most insensitive and overly simplistic things I’ve ever read.
And for the record, I’ve been the one who got left for the other lover, the one who did the leaving to be with my lover, and the other lover, albeit all three simultaneously. Believe me, from any perspective it’s not that simple.
Do you really believe that Kelly is not entitled to be angry? Do you really think that it comes down to Franklin and Shelly good polys/Kelly bad mono?
I think Franklin put it well when he said that this is not about poly. It’s about a marriage that is over. Kelly has every right to vent online if it helps her through it. Franklin has every right not to. Shelly is unfortunatley caught in the middle of all this, but ultimately the divorce is not about her at all – after all, she was never married to either of them.
Everybody needs to back off and quit thinking that there is a good guy or a bad guy here. It’s a private matter, even if this is a public forum.
Everybody needs to back off and quit thinking that there is a good guy or a bad guy here. It’s a private matter, even if this is a public forum.
I am certain you have missed the entire point of my post. I agreee 100% with what you state above. That is the point. If you choose to make it public, sobeit. Then don’t be amazed at anything people are going to throw your way – good, bad, or indifferent. As I said, ‘it is still just a breakup’
To spell it out: I think K has handled it poorly for writing ANYTHING in her LJ about anything so personal. I think F should at least say something in reagrds to his position as unwritten authority (I myself have pointed many persons asking questions to his website which is awesome). And S prolly has said the most by saying the least about all this. Finally, I only respond to this because it is between you and me and has nothing to do with them…insensitive you say? I think it is GD insensitive to print ANYTHING so personal about an 18 year spouse in a public forum!
I do it at poly meetings. I can do it in my journal. You don’t like it then don’t read it. Don’t judge me, cause you would not do it.
Sometimes you just have to face up to the glowing fact that you’ve wasted your breath.
Such is this moment.
I now shape-shift into Pontius Pilot….
>>>I do it at poly meetings. I can do it in my journal. You don’t like >>>then don’t read it. Don’t judge me, cause you would not do it.
Amen Kelly!! I couldn’t agree with you more!
OK so here goes the abridged version:
See Kelly and Franklin.
See Kelly complain.
See Franklin and Shelly.
Complain Kelly complain.
See Franklin smile at Shelly.
Shelly likes Franklin.
Kelly says no! No Franklin no!
See Kelly cry. Cry Kelly Cry.
Now everyone is mad at Franklin.
Bad Franklin. Bad, bad, bad!
Dude, it is a public forum and you haven’t said shit about it. It’s all one sided. Hers. Without your voice, you get to take the slam from any and all things written about you. “Poor me” does nothing to garner sympathy from me, I think everyone takes their own wins and losses. I haven’t said squat because quite frankly, it is none of my business and I know it. But, for what it is worth, if this had happened without the word “poly” attached, it’a been just another breakup. As it is, it is “just another breakup.”
One more thing. Aloofness brings contempt. Everyone pulls out a hanky for someone who is crying, a stoic face gets squat.
Good luck in whatever direction your path takes you!
It might be public, or it might also be someone’s personal (albeit with some dispute) journal. She has a right to use it as whatever she would like, although realizing that what is typed is public domain is something to keep in mind. I am dubious about taking either road. I have a feeling it is more cathartic than vindictive. Keep that in mind. But what do I know, I am neutral. I just hate to see people hurt each other.
Re: Of course they’re threatened
Agreed. I am not one of the people who has been emailing you — what good would that possibly do? — but I have to say that what has happened between you and Kelly has been one of the examples that has caused me, in particular, to swear off entering into a poly relationship ever again. While I no longer look to the list (and the journals) for reassurance that a poly-mono pairing can work, I am probably not the only one who, while your relationships appeared to be working out, saw you as a beacon of hope for my own relationship.
-sarameonblue
Well, I’m a part of the polyfamilies group and I follow your journal. I was curious about the lack of posts related to Kelly, but I really thought it would be none of my business and impolite of me to ask. ESPECIALLY since I don’t actually have a ‘real life’ or even an extensive ‘on line’ friendship with you.
When and if you were ready to reveal it or talk about it — is entirely your deal.
I think I owe it to myself to extend my reply a bit. First, to you anomynous posters..phooey, if you can’t have guts enough to post with your ID, then who can take you seriously>?
I think the answer to the “Why are people taking this personally?” is the fact that…like it or not, you ALL have put yourself into a position where you have gathered a fan club of sorts. Not exactly like EastEnders, but enough to draw a crowd when the gloves are getting laced up. Plus, as AD HOC poster kids for Poly and all that is gracious, the rest of us strugglers with what you find effortless now have a chink in the facade to shove in the daggers. I sure didn’t choose to post my laundry in public. But some of you did. It just seems to be unbalanced. Seems like a commentary of the pitfalls of Poly from someone who has held a high regard in Poly matters would be expected.
ANNNNNDDDD, lest we forget, only a few of us have actually heard the real deal face to face, and even then not the whole story. I said it before, none of my business, I will hold to that and make this my final answer.
Good luck to all three, four (or more) of yas.
OK so here goes the abridged version:
See Kelly and Franklin.
See Kelly complain.
See Franklin and Shelly.
Complain Kelly complain.
See Franklin smile at Shelly.
Shelly likes Franklin.
Kelly says no! No Franklin no!
See Kelly cry. Cry Kelly Cry.
Now everyone is mad at Franklin.
Bad Franklin. Bad, bad, bad!
Sorry, but having been in the middle of the shit storm that is a poly divorce where you are actually living with your ex AND your ex’s lover, this is one of the harshest, most insensitive and overly simplistic things I’ve ever read.
And for the record, I’ve been the one who got left for the other lover, the one who did the leaving to be with my lover, and the other lover, albeit all three simultaneously. Believe me, from any perspective it’s not that simple.
Do you really believe that Kelly is not entitled to be angry? Do you really think that it comes down to Franklin and Shelly good polys/Kelly bad mono?
I think Franklin put it well when he said that this is not about poly. It’s about a marriage that is over. Kelly has every right to vent online if it helps her through it. Franklin has every right not to. Shelly is unfortunatley caught in the middle of all this, but ultimately the divorce is not about her at all – after all, she was never married to either of them.
Everybody needs to back off and quit thinking that there is a good guy or a bad guy here. It’s a private matter, even if this is a public forum.
Everybody needs to back off and quit thinking that there is a good guy or a bad guy here. It’s a private matter, even if this is a public forum.
I am certain you have missed the entire point of my post. I agreee 100% with what you state above. That is the point. If you choose to make it public, sobeit. Then don’t be amazed at anything people are going to throw your way – good, bad, or indifferent. As I said, ‘it is still just a breakup’
To spell it out: I think K has handled it poorly for writing ANYTHING in her LJ about anything so personal. I think F should at least say something in reagrds to his position as unwritten authority (I myself have pointed many persons asking questions to his website which is awesome). And S prolly has said the most by saying the least about all this. Finally, I only respond to this because it is between you and me and has nothing to do with them…insensitive you say? I think it is GD insensitive to print ANYTHING so personal about an 18 year spouse in a public forum!
1. Yuck on the IRS
2. Yuck on the sabotage
3. Yuck on the people feeling that they must sling mud at you. Not quite sure how that helps anyone…
Good luck to you, Kelly, and Shelly – life is a series of decisions and unfortunately not everyone will be happy with the decisions we make…
1. Yuck on the IRS
2. Yuck on the sabotage
3. Yuck on the people feeling that they must sling mud at you. Not quite sure how that helps anyone…
Good luck to you, Kelly, and Shelly – life is a series of decisions and unfortunately not everyone will be happy with the decisions we make…
1) ICKY! But at least it’s their fault and not yours…
2) WTF? That’s just… strange.
3) *sympathy* I’ve actually had very quiet sympathy and no words since I first heard the news. No words makes it difficult to say anything, although I seem to be succeeding right now.
1) ICKY! But at least it’s their fault and not yours…
2) WTF? That’s just… strange.
3) *sympathy* I’ve actually had very quiet sympathy and no words since I first heard the news. No words makes it difficult to say anything, although I seem to be succeeding right now.
I do it at poly meetings. I can do it in my journal. You don’t like it then don’t read it. Don’t judge me, cause you would not do it.
Sometimes you just have to face up to the glowing fact that you’ve wasted your breath.
Such is this moment.
I now shape-shift into Pontius Pilot….
>>>I do it at poly meetings. I can do it in my journal. You don’t like >>>then don’t read it. Don’t judge me, cause you would not do it.
Amen Kelly!! I couldn’t agree with you more!
I wish you all the best. 🙂
I wish you all the best. 🙂
Re: Some of it’s about you…
You know, I think probably at least a proporation of what you have been receiving IS about you. They might, like me, see in Kelly a woman who has been with you for a pretty long time now (18 years) and from what it is possible to gather from the written word (yours as well as hers), it seems she has loved you unconditionally. In fairness, you probably loved her in return. You knew what she was 8 years ago (basically mono) and she knew what you were too (ALWAYS poly), but you got married anyway. High risk all round.
But it is Kelly who has sacrificed what she wants for what you want. She probably didn’t want Robin to move into the home you shared either. And by your own words, when that arrangement went badly amiss, Kelly vowed never to accept another person into your home again. Did you make that vow also? Perhaps not.
But under pressure, Kelly went against her better judgement and agreed to allow someone else into your home. You must have known she never wanted that. How you imagined for one moment it would ever work is difficult to comprehend. It was always doomed to fail.
You made a comment on one of your posts sometime back that if anyone ever asked you to chose between them and Kelly, you would chose Kelly every time. Instead you chose to leave Kelly behind, which is your perogative, but you chose to do so at a time in her life when she was MOST vulnerable and when she really needed you – when she was about to undertake a major operation that could have serious impacts for her health. On top of that, she is badly damaged emotionally, after giving in to everything that you wanted. THAT’S the part that is very difficult to understand.
Kelly is very lucky in that she has many friends who will help and support her and she will survive and perhaps be stronger for it. She was always the stronger one, anyway.
You’re right, it is YOUR life and you are free to live it as you please – the rest of us don’t really have to understand any of it. But if you offer up part of your soul to the outside world, not everyone will like what they see.
You are correct though – I am sure you will find others to take the place of Shelly and Xtina when they go, and then others again after that. The cycle will go on.
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Okay, so. I’ll reply to this now, since even though I think you might not see it, chances are you really are that obsessed.
* I’m Xtina, I see all that’s happening, and I still choose to be with F.
* Shelly chooses to be with F. She is also an adult with free will and eyes.
* Franklin has made choices that fall more in line with what he believes in, and with who he is deep-down. Change fucking sucks, breaking up fucking sucks, and he’s still doing it, not because he’s a horrible person, but because he wants to be true to himself.
* Kelly is suffering, yes, but if you read her journal, you see that she’s actually seeing this as an opportunity for growth and self-discovery. She’s hardly wasting away in a darkened room.
So what the fuck do you care what goes on? Even I barely feel as though I can comment on their situation, and I’m involved in it! (Peripherally, a course.)
So unless you are
the second gunman on the grassy knollsomeone who is so close to the situation as to be one of us and we just don’t know it yet, shut the, and grow the, fuck up.Re: Some of it’s about you…
me thinks the lady doth protest (and swear too much). that post apparently really struck a nerve, huh?
Re: Some of it’s about you…
First, I have a mouth like a sailor. That’s hardly news.
Second, when worthless cowards bitch and whine and moan to about relationships that have nothing to do with them? Damn straight I’m gonna mock them. Roundly and soundly. “Wah wah wah I can’t think of anything better to do than to demonise someone I’ve never met!” Super-green, dude.
Come back with your name
orand some actual justification for sticking your nose in business that’s not yours, or piss off. Your third grade debate tactics are sneer-worthy at best.Hey, a usericon!
Re: Some of it’s about you…
(This is what I get for commenting at work – multiple comments to make up for bits I forgot.)
Third, you didn’t answer my question – what the fuck do you care what goes on?
Fourth, who are you, anyways?
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Hi there!
I knew who Franklin used to be and this transistion of his reminds me of someone doing 180 mph in the fast lane with no brakes, bad steering and a flat tire.
Re: Some of it’s about you…
You know, Jen, it’s easy enough for you to fnd out whether or not thien things you’re hearing about me are true. You can find out simply by being a firsthand observer, and I think you’d be rather surprised, if you did, by what oyu see.
Certainly, you currently believe many things about me which are not true–which is what happens when you get all your information from journal entries and gossip. (And yes, I know about the gossip–we have friends in common, it all comes back to me.)
My door is still open. Which do you want more–jucy gossip about someone who you’ve always found threatening, or truth?
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Which do you want more–jucy gossip about someone who you’ve always found threatening, or truth?
Huh? Parse please.
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Which do you want more? Which would bring greater joy and satisfaction into your life? Spreading jucy gossip, which vilifies me and demonizes me but is factually and provably untrue, or knowing the truth?
I think you prefer the juicy gossip. I think you get pleasure from it; in fact, I think it shows in the fact that you criticise my life, call it “Days of our Lives,” yet you never change the channel. I believe you like the soap opera; I believe that I represent and have always represented something you find threatening, and it makes you feel better to gossip about me.
So, my guess is: You will choose gossip over truth. But, I’m asking you. Hypothetical situation: If you had an opportunity to find out the reality of what was going on, knowing that many of the things you now believe were false and that many of the things you have said can be proven to be untrue, or you had an opportunity not to get this information, and continue to gossip, which would you choose?
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Er. No, I get the gossip vs truth part. And I’m not sure if listening to what Kelly has to say in her journal is exactly gossip, hmm, but ok.
.
.
.
Actually, I was curious about the “always threatened part”.
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Scarlete
Hey, if I ever need someone to stick up for me, can you hop on a plane to Australia perhaps? *laugh*
Ruth
Re: Some of it’s about you…
You, I don’t chose to reply to – you are irrelevant.
(Previous reply to you wasn’t me – but it does get confusing, I know!)
Ruth Gill
GPO Box 1533
Adelaide, South Australia 5001
Re: Some of it’s about you…
If I’m irrelevant, why are you giving me your mailing address?
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Maybe it’s because you asked me to identify myself….
Re: Some of it’s about you…
It’s interesting, isn’t it, how much fun it can be to pass judgement on a relationship you know little about, from half a world away, in the safety of anonymity?
You can’t reasonably be expected to know anything about my situation or our relationship; you can’t, for example, know about the destructive and meanspirited things Kelly has said and done to both me and my other partners–because I don’t talk about them, and she certainly won’t. But no matter; your own personal relationship didn’t work out, so it’s comforting for you to demonize the poly person.
Of course, it leads you down the wrong road. You say, for example, that I am “abandoning” Kelly at a time when she is “MOST vulnerable,” yet the truth is that she is in a better position now than she ever has been in the past to be on her own. in the past, she’s always said “You can’t leave me or I’ll kill myself,” something that’s absent from her vocabulary today.
And it’s particularly interesting that you dismiss my relationships with Shelly and Christina so trivially, when you know nothing about them–“I am sure you will find others to take the place of Shelly and Xtina when they go, and then others again after that.” You’re clearly not paying attention; an eighteen-year relationship that was high-risk to begin with does not happen by accident, and a person who will stay in an eighteen-year relationship under adverse conditions is not a person who ends relationships easily or lightly. My relationships tend to span decades–what’s your best?
By the way, in the future, if you do not sign anonymous comments, they will be deleted unanswered. I log IP addresses, so I know who you are; you can sign your name to your posts, or I can do it for you, or I can simply flush them. Your call.
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Franklin, as I explained to Kelly, I have a reason I stay anonymous (and not at all because I back away from what I say). OF COURSE I realise you log IP addresses! I should have put my name and address on my last post, but it is clearly marked on my message to Kelly (and it seems ONE person at least is interested in what she has to say). Anyway, apologies for my ‘non-identification’ on my last message. My name is Ruth Gill (as you already know) – if you want to send me a letter (if you care to take the time), I can be reached at GPO Box 1533, Adelaide, South Australia 5001.
Where to start with an answer to what you say? My best relationship term? The answer would surprise you, but I have you beat there, easy. A short-term relationship I had WAS a mistake, that’s for sure, but I ALWAYS knew that one would never work out. I am nothing if not a realist.
As for your relationships – they can’t quite compare with most other people’s – during that 18 years with Kelly, you’ve been free to explore relationships with others – how many others only you know. During the couple of years I’ve been around here, there’s been so many names, it’s rather hard to keep track.
You are a very intelligent man – that is obvious, but my opinion is that you have lost something very valuable that will probably never come your way again. Sure, I’m half a world away, know very little of the details of your life and what has been happening, but that is still my opinion and I’m entitled to it. If you display the details of your personal life on a LJ, and then don’t expect any comments other than from your ‘fans’, then you’ve simply been wasting your time. I’m also entitled to feel for Kelly, which I do. That is a woman with class, and I can tell that, even from here.
However, I don’t intend to get into a war of words with you (or your foul-mouthed girlfriend for that matter) on the subject. There will be no need to ‘flush’ any of my messages, because in future I will only ever be here for Kelly if she needs someone to talk to. However, it appears she has many friends who are supporting her and I know she’ll be just fine in time.
You’ll discover all on your own whether I was right or wrong.
Cheers
RG
Re: Some of it’s about you…
You know, I think probably at least a proporation of what you have been receiving IS about you. They might, like me, see in Kelly a woman who has been with you for a pretty long time now (18 years) and from what it is possible to gather from the written word (yours as well as hers), it seems she has loved you unconditionally. In fairness, you probably loved her in return. You knew what she was 8 years ago (basically mono) and she knew what you were too (ALWAYS poly), but you got married anyway. High risk all round.
But it is Kelly who has sacrificed what she wants for what you want. She probably didn’t want Robin to move into the home you shared either. And by your own words, when that arrangement went badly amiss, Kelly vowed never to accept another person into your home again. Did you make that vow also? Perhaps not.
But under pressure, Kelly went against her better judgement and agreed to allow someone else into your home. You must have known she never wanted that. How you imagined for one moment it would ever work is difficult to comprehend. It was always doomed to fail.
You made a comment on one of your posts sometime back that if anyone ever asked you to chose between them and Kelly, you would chose Kelly every time. Instead you chose to leave Kelly behind, which is your perogative, but you chose to do so at a time in her life when she was MOST vulnerable and when she really needed you – when she was about to undertake a major operation that could have serious impacts for her health. On top of that, she is badly damaged emotionally, after giving in to everything that you wanted. THAT’S the part that is very difficult to understand.
Kelly is very lucky in that she has many friends who will help and support her and she will survive and perhaps be stronger for it. She was always the stronger one, anyway.
You’re right, it is YOUR life and you are free to live it as you please – the rest of us don’t really have to understand any of it. But if you offer up part of your soul to the outside world, not everyone will like what they see.
You are correct though – I am sure you will find others to take the place of Shelly and Xtina when they go, and then others again after that. The cycle will go on.
I don’t know any of you, but I couldn’t read this and ignore it. My symapthies to all involved. When it comes to relationships, sometimes the correct and fair thing is not easy, socially acceptable, painless, or even what any of the participants want. Good luck to all of you in finding happiness, no matter where it lies.
I don’t know any of you, but I couldn’t read this and ignore it. My symapthies to all involved. When it comes to relationships, sometimes the correct and fair thing is not easy, socially acceptable, painless, or even what any of the participants want. Good luck to all of you in finding happiness, no matter where it lies.
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Okay, so. I’ll reply to this now, since even though I think you might not see it, chances are you really are that obsessed.
* I’m Xtina, I see all that’s happening, and I still choose to be with F.
* Shelly chooses to be with F. She is also an adult with free will and eyes.
* Franklin has made choices that fall more in line with what he believes in, and with who he is deep-down. Change fucking sucks, breaking up fucking sucks, and he’s still doing it, not because he’s a horrible person, but because he wants to be true to himself.
* Kelly is suffering, yes, but if you read her journal, you see that she’s actually seeing this as an opportunity for growth and self-discovery. She’s hardly wasting away in a darkened room.
So what the fuck do you care what goes on? Even I barely feel as though I can comment on their situation, and I’m involved in it! (Peripherally, a course.)
So unless you are
the second gunman on the grassy knollsomeone who is so close to the situation as to be one of us and we just don’t know it yet, shut the, and grow the, fuck up.Re: Some of it’s about you…
me thinks the lady doth protest (and swear too much). that post apparently really struck a nerve, huh?
Re: Some of it’s about you…
First, I have a mouth like a sailor. That’s hardly news.
Second, when worthless cowards bitch and whine and moan to about relationships that have nothing to do with them? Damn straight I’m gonna mock them. Roundly and soundly. “Wah wah wah I can’t think of anything better to do than to demonise someone I’ve never met!” Super-green, dude.
Come back with your name
orand some actual justification for sticking your nose in business that’s not yours, or piss off. Your third grade debate tactics are sneer-worthy at best.Hey, a usericon!
Re: Some of it’s about you…
(This is what I get for commenting at work – multiple comments to make up for bits I forgot.)
Third, you didn’t answer my question – what the fuck do you care what goes on?
Fourth, who are you, anyways?
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Hi there!
I knew who Franklin used to be and this transistion of his reminds me of someone doing 180 mph in the fast lane with no brakes, bad steering and a flat tire.
Re: Some of it’s about you…
It’s interesting, isn’t it, how much fun it can be to pass judgement on a relationship you know little about, from half a world away, in the safety of anonymity?
You can’t reasonably be expected to know anything about my situation or our relationship; you can’t, for example, know about the destructive and meanspirited things Kelly has said and done to both me and my other partners–because I don’t talk about them, and she certainly won’t. But no matter; your own personal relationship didn’t work out, so it’s comforting for you to demonize the poly person.
Of course, it leads you down the wrong road. You say, for example, that I am “abandoning” Kelly at a time when she is “MOST vulnerable,” yet the truth is that she is in a better position now than she ever has been in the past to be on her own. in the past, she’s always said “You can’t leave me or I’ll kill myself,” something that’s absent from her vocabulary today.
And it’s particularly interesting that you dismiss my relationships with Shelly and Christina so trivially, when you know nothing about them–“I am sure you will find others to take the place of Shelly and Xtina when they go, and then others again after that.” You’re clearly not paying attention; an eighteen-year relationship that was high-risk to begin with does not happen by accident, and a person who will stay in an eighteen-year relationship under adverse conditions is not a person who ends relationships easily or lightly. My relationships tend to span decades–what’s your best?
By the way, in the future, if you do not sign anonymous comments, they will be deleted unanswered. I log IP addresses, so I know who you are; you can sign your name to your posts, or I can do it for you, or I can simply flush them. Your call.
Re: Some of it’s about you…
You know, Jen, it’s easy enough for you to fnd out whether or not thien things you’re hearing about me are true. You can find out simply by being a firsthand observer, and I think you’d be rather surprised, if you did, by what oyu see.
Certainly, you currently believe many things about me which are not true–which is what happens when you get all your information from journal entries and gossip. (And yes, I know about the gossip–we have friends in common, it all comes back to me.)
My door is still open. Which do you want more–jucy gossip about someone who you’ve always found threatening, or truth?
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Which do you want more–jucy gossip about someone who you’ve always found threatening, or truth?
Huh? Parse please.
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Which do you want more? Which would bring greater joy and satisfaction into your life? Spreading jucy gossip, which vilifies me and demonizes me but is factually and provably untrue, or knowing the truth?
I think you prefer the juicy gossip. I think you get pleasure from it; in fact, I think it shows in the fact that you criticise my life, call it “Days of our Lives,” yet you never change the channel. I believe you like the soap opera; I believe that I represent and have always represented something you find threatening, and it makes you feel better to gossip about me.
So, my guess is: You will choose gossip over truth. But, I’m asking you. Hypothetical situation: If you had an opportunity to find out the reality of what was going on, knowing that many of the things you now believe were false and that many of the things you have said can be proven to be untrue, or you had an opportunity not to get this information, and continue to gossip, which would you choose?
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Er. No, I get the gossip vs truth part. And I’m not sure if listening to what Kelly has to say in her journal is exactly gossip, hmm, but ok.
.
.
.
Actually, I was curious about the “always threatened part”.
Re: Some of it’s about you…
You, I don’t chose to reply to – you are irrelevant.
(Previous reply to you wasn’t me – but it does get confusing, I know!)
Ruth Gill
GPO Box 1533
Adelaide, South Australia 5001
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Franklin, as I explained to Kelly, I have a reason I stay anonymous (and not at all because I back away from what I say). OF COURSE I realise you log IP addresses! I should have put my name and address on my last post, but it is clearly marked on my message to Kelly (and it seems ONE person at least is interested in what she has to say). Anyway, apologies for my ‘non-identification’ on my last message. My name is Ruth Gill (as you already know) – if you want to send me a letter (if you care to take the time), I can be reached at GPO Box 1533, Adelaide, South Australia 5001.
Where to start with an answer to what you say? My best relationship term? The answer would surprise you, but I have you beat there, easy. A short-term relationship I had WAS a mistake, that’s for sure, but I ALWAYS knew that one would never work out. I am nothing if not a realist.
As for your relationships – they can’t quite compare with most other people’s – during that 18 years with Kelly, you’ve been free to explore relationships with others – how many others only you know. During the couple of years I’ve been around here, there’s been so many names, it’s rather hard to keep track.
You are a very intelligent man – that is obvious, but my opinion is that you have lost something very valuable that will probably never come your way again. Sure, I’m half a world away, know very little of the details of your life and what has been happening, but that is still my opinion and I’m entitled to it. If you display the details of your personal life on a LJ, and then don’t expect any comments other than from your ‘fans’, then you’ve simply been wasting your time. I’m also entitled to feel for Kelly, which I do. That is a woman with class, and I can tell that, even from here.
However, I don’t intend to get into a war of words with you (or your foul-mouthed girlfriend for that matter) on the subject. There will be no need to ‘flush’ any of my messages, because in future I will only ever be here for Kelly if she needs someone to talk to. However, it appears she has many friends who are supporting her and I know she’ll be just fine in time.
You’ll discover all on your own whether I was right or wrong.
Cheers
RG
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Scarlete
Hey, if I ever need someone to stick up for me, can you hop on a plane to Australia perhaps? *laugh*
Ruth
Re: Some of it’s about you…
If I’m irrelevant, why are you giving me your mailing address?
Re: Some of it’s about you…
Maybe it’s because you asked me to identify myself….