So. Battlestar: Galactica.
I’ve resisted seeing it, because I am very skeptical about television sci-fi in general, and because the original series (which I saw–quick, how old does that make me?) sucked so badly. So very, very, very badly.
Anyhow, Shelly and I rented the miniseries that started the series last Sunday–or rather, Shelly rented it, and I didn’t raise any objections. And, surprisingly, it’s really very, very good. It pays a wink and a nod to the original series without being hokey or lowbrows, and the characters are surprisingly complex and nuanced.
Buuuuuuuuut…
About a third of the way through, Shelly remarked, “You know, the Cylons are looking like the superior race here.” And y’know, she’s right.
For anyone who’s not up on the show, the premise concerns humanity’s flight from the evil Cylons, a race of intelligent machines originally created by humanity, who revolted and declared war on their former masters. Humans kicked metallic ass, the Cylons disappeare; then, four decades later, reappeared and staged a massive nuclear attack on every inhabited human planet, virtually exterminating us. One large interstellar warship, a handful of civilian ships, and a few tens of thousands of humans escaped, and the show concerns their flight from the Cylons.
So there’s the premise. There are a thousand ways to butcher that premise on television, most of which were visited upon the original series, a show cheesy almost beyond belief; the new show, on the Scifi channel, is actually remarkably good.
Good, for a study in anti-transhumanism, that is. See, here’s the thing. A minor plot point revolves around one of the characters being diagnosed with terminal cancer. Now, the interesting thing about that is here we have a society that has bridged the stars, created enormous faster-than-light spacecraft, but has no effective treatment for cancer.
That theme continues in other ways. The commander of the heavy cruiser from which the show takes its name is in his 60s, and near retirement; no longevity. Sophisticated computers? Outlawed. You get the idea.
The good guys here are the neo-Luddites; the villains bent on the total destruction of all humanity are the progressives.
Halfway through the miniseries, and I’m kinda thinkin’ I’m rooting for the wrong team here.
The Cylons are effectively immortal; if one dies, its consciousness, memory, and identity can be transferred to a new body. In almost every respect, they outmatch humans–they can integrate with other computers to a very high degree; they’re faster and stronger; they are technologically and intellectually more sophisticated…oh, yeah, and did I mention they’re effectively immortal?
Essentially, what we have here is a war between backward, technology-fearing neo-Luddites and the smart, sophisticated, highly capable adversaries created by humanity. And,y’know, it’s kinda hard to think that the Cylons don’t have a point here. Create a self-aware machine, treat it like a thing rather than a person, what do you expect? And it’s not like we’re above exterminating our adversaries (or, for that matter, ourselves).
Frankly, my money’s on the Cylons. And, honestly, my sympathies lie in that direction as well.
And the new models are pretty hot, too.
In the previous season we meet the two cylons who pretended to be human and how they have a different understanding of humanity than the others have. It is a thought provoking show and very dark.
In the previous season we meet the two cylons who pretended to be human and how they have a different understanding of humanity than the others have. It is a thought provoking show and very dark.
Well, the Cylons are going to win in the end, pretty much. They’ll survive while humanity may not. Why are your sympathies with them? They don’t really face any sort of threat.
Well, the Cylons are going to win in the end, pretty much. They’ll survive while humanity may not. Why are your sympathies with them? They don’t really face any sort of threat.
You’ll love some of the stuff that comes up later in the series that addresses and plays around with these concepts 😀
Come on October!!
… and I thought *I* was behind the times just starting this series late last year! 😀
You’ll love some of the stuff that comes up later in the series that addresses and plays around with these concepts 😀
Come on October!!
… and I thought *I* was behind the times just starting this series late last year! 😀
My family’s response (and I am not qualified to comment not having seen more than a few episodes) is that we are the descendents of the Cylons and our Earth is a repeat of the bits of humanity the Cylons saved and sentimentally placed here.
My family’s response (and I am not qualified to comment not having seen more than a few episodes) is that we are the descendents of the Cylons and our Earth is a repeat of the bits of humanity the Cylons saved and sentimentally placed here.
I think new-BSG is being quite true to the original in a lot of ways, but what we’re seeing is how TV shows have changed in 30 years. The original was a post-Star Wars rush, to ride on that popularity tide, and as such focuses more on action; zap the badies with lasers, fly around in space ships. It even suffered a bit from the “baddie of the week” syndrome (eg the Patrick Macnee episodes). In contract new-BSG is a modern take on SciFi; it focuses more on the people, how they interact and tries to be more “gritty” (a drunk XO, tensions between family members, relationships between crew members), rather than being action driven. It’s also more story driven, rather than episodic, innature.
I watch it when it’s on (my TiVo is programmed for it) but I’m wibbling about whether to get the DVDs, which is odd; normally I buy DVDs of programs I watch without many second thoughts. A friend of mine recently discovered BSG and so I rewatched the mini-series and the first few episodes of season 1 and… I’m still not sure!
I think new-BSG is being quite true to the original in a lot of ways, but what we’re seeing is how TV shows have changed in 30 years. The original was a post-Star Wars rush, to ride on that popularity tide, and as such focuses more on action; zap the badies with lasers, fly around in space ships. It even suffered a bit from the “baddie of the week” syndrome (eg the Patrick Macnee episodes). In contract new-BSG is a modern take on SciFi; it focuses more on the people, how they interact and tries to be more “gritty” (a drunk XO, tensions between family members, relationships between crew members), rather than being action driven. It’s also more story driven, rather than episodic, innature.
I watch it when it’s on (my TiVo is programmed for it) but I’m wibbling about whether to get the DVDs, which is odd; normally I buy DVDs of programs I watch without many second thoughts. A friend of mine recently discovered BSG and so I rewatched the mini-series and the first few episodes of season 1 and… I’m still not sure!
“The good guys here are the neo-Luddites;…”
I don’t think it’s so much that as it is the writers stink. A couple of instances of “oooohhh, I’m hiding behind this crate from the Cylon” established that Cylons don’t have infrared. WHAT?!?!?!
My impression was not that it was a society cast as deliberately anti-science as there were plot points that didn’t work unless you pretended that certain technologies didn’t exist.
“The good guys here are the neo-Luddites;…”
I don’t think it’s so much that as it is the writers stink. A couple of instances of “oooohhh, I’m hiding behind this crate from the Cylon” established that Cylons don’t have infrared. WHAT?!?!?!
My impression was not that it was a society cast as deliberately anti-science as there were plot points that didn’t work unless you pretended that certain technologies didn’t exist.
Wait until you get to the more recent episodes. There is a coming synthesis that upsets the Luddite applecart (to horribly mash metaphors).
Wait until you get to the more recent episodes. There is a coming synthesis that upsets the Luddite applecart (to horribly mash metaphors).
the cylons are entertainingly sexy.
they also spontaneously decided to wipe out their neighbors, who pose absolutely no threat to them and who, incidentally, created them. to the extent that they’ve given any explanation at all (i’ve only seen the first season), it’s because “god told us to”. i find that hard to sympathise with.
the “no networked computers” thing was for a specific tactical reason (the cylons are absurdly good at hacking into them); it’s not so much a general anti-technology bias.
the cylons are entertainingly sexy.
they also spontaneously decided to wipe out their neighbors, who pose absolutely no threat to them and who, incidentally, created them. to the extent that they’ve given any explanation at all (i’ve only seen the first season), it’s because “god told us to”. i find that hard to sympathise with.
the “no networked computers” thing was for a specific tactical reason (the cylons are absurdly good at hacking into them); it’s not so much a general anti-technology bias.
I have about 10-20 hours of talking with you about BSG that I’d love to do, but I really can’t do most of it until you’ve watched more of the series. We have all of season one on DVD if you’re interested.
I will say this- nothing is cut and dried, there is no clear wrong/right line, and BSG is the second best show I’ve ever seen (after Firefly, and it’s a *very* close second). Oh, and screw Six- Boomer (Grace Park) is the hottest woman on television.
The humans’ technological shortcomings seem to be driven either by having an enemy who can use their own tech against them or simply for plot purposes (Laura’s cancer, Adama’s impending retirement). What I find interesting is that the humans are all either polytheistic or agnostic, while the Cylons are fanatically monotheistic. You’ll learn much more about both sides as the show progresses.
Incidentally, there’s a nod to Firefly in the scene where Laura Roslin finds out she has cancer. At the beginning of that scene, a firefly-class ship flies by the window. If you’re looking for it you can’t miss it. The same team did the CGI for both series.
We have all of season one on DVD if you’re interested.
Dude! Bring it with you to Dragon–it’ll give me a cover story to infiltrate your room. 🙂
I caught the Firefly; in fact, while I was watching that scene, I stopped the DVD and backed it up, just to make sure I’d actually seen what I thought I saw.
Oops. I’m now reading this at 12:30 am on Friday, in a motel just north of Macon. 🙁
I guess that just means we’ll have to
do battlemeet up some time soon!BTW, when do you guys expect to arrive at ‘Con? I believe that the cryonics panel is Friday night at 10 pm.
I have about 10-20 hours of talking with you about BSG that I’d love to do, but I really can’t do most of it until you’ve watched more of the series. We have all of season one on DVD if you’re interested.
I will say this- nothing is cut and dried, there is no clear wrong/right line, and BSG is the second best show I’ve ever seen (after Firefly, and it’s a *very* close second). Oh, and screw Six- Boomer (Grace Park) is the hottest woman on television.
The humans’ technological shortcomings seem to be driven either by having an enemy who can use their own tech against them or simply for plot purposes (Laura’s cancer, Adama’s impending retirement). What I find interesting is that the humans are all either polytheistic or agnostic, while the Cylons are fanatically monotheistic. You’ll learn much more about both sides as the show progresses.
Incidentally, there’s a nod to Firefly in the scene where Laura Roslin finds out she has cancer. At the beginning of that scene, a firefly-class ship flies by the window. If you’re looking for it you can’t miss it. The same team did the CGI for both series.
Spoiler for mini-series deleted
*nodding* Technologically, absolutely. Morally? Philosophically? This remains to be seen.
The ship was being retired, I never got the sense that Adama was as well. As for “networked computers” that was only on that ship. Remember when there were still Mark VII fighters and the Cylons were able to basically turn them off? However, the old Mark II relics, Apollo in one of those remained alive and able to use his ship.
Certainly the story is designed to draw the viewers sympathies toward the Humans. That adds to the drama, fighting against incaluable odds, blah blah blah. However, I think they’ve done a pretty good job of allowing us to ‘see’ things from the Cylon side as well. I don’t so much root for the humans as I do tune in to see how Ron Moore’s gonna fuck with my head that night. To see what happens.
As is always the case when putting a ‘face’ to the enemy, they become more ‘human’. I have a great deal of sympathy for some Cylons and less for others.
Also because the roles are nuanced and a great deal happens in the 42 minutes of the program, I tend to watch each episode twice to have a chance to focus also on the things that they’re not particularly drawing our attention to in scenes.
While the show is called Battlestar Galactica and so the focus is on the ship and it’s inhabitants, I’d still like to see more of what goes on in the day to day life of the fleet. The survivors who are forced to do their jobs every day (pilots and mechanics of the civilan fleet) and those who don’t have jobs any more. What happens to humans when they don’t have an expectation of working and when money doesn’t mean anything anymore. What are the new definitions of government and how does it run, who besides the Pres and his/her body man are doing things and what is it that they are doing? Is there crime? How is it dealt with? Is there an economy? How does it work? Maybe I just like knowing how things work too much. *shrug*
Spoiler for mini-series deleted
*nodding* Technologically, absolutely. Morally? Philosophically? This remains to be seen.
The ship was being retired, I never got the sense that Adama was as well. As for “networked computers” that was only on that ship. Remember when there were still Mark VII fighters and the Cylons were able to basically turn them off? However, the old Mark II relics, Apollo in one of those remained alive and able to use his ship.
Certainly the story is designed to draw the viewers sympathies toward the Humans. That adds to the drama, fighting against incaluable odds, blah blah blah. However, I think they’ve done a pretty good job of allowing us to ‘see’ things from the Cylon side as well. I don’t so much root for the humans as I do tune in to see how Ron Moore’s gonna fuck with my head that night. To see what happens.
As is always the case when putting a ‘face’ to the enemy, they become more ‘human’. I have a great deal of sympathy for some Cylons and less for others.
Also because the roles are nuanced and a great deal happens in the 42 minutes of the program, I tend to watch each episode twice to have a chance to focus also on the things that they’re not particularly drawing our attention to in scenes.
While the show is called Battlestar Galactica and so the focus is on the ship and it’s inhabitants, I’d still like to see more of what goes on in the day to day life of the fleet. The survivors who are forced to do their jobs every day (pilots and mechanics of the civilan fleet) and those who don’t have jobs any more. What happens to humans when they don’t have an expectation of working and when money doesn’t mean anything anymore. What are the new definitions of government and how does it run, who besides the Pres and his/her body man are doing things and what is it that they are doing? Is there crime? How is it dealt with? Is there an economy? How does it work? Maybe I just like knowing how things work too much. *shrug*
We have all of season one on DVD if you’re interested.
Dude! Bring it with you to Dragon–it’ll give me a cover story to infiltrate your room. 🙂
I caught the Firefly; in fact, while I was watching that scene, I stopped the DVD and backed it up, just to make sure I’d actually seen what I thought I saw.
Oops. I’m now reading this at 12:30 am on Friday, in a motel just north of Macon. 🙁
I guess that just means we’ll have to
do battlemeet up some time soon!BTW, when do you guys expect to arrive at ‘Con? I believe that the cryonics panel is Friday night at 10 pm.
Does “More capable” mean “Better”?
I’m not sniping here, I’m asking a question. It’s like the often-confused difference when someone says “How are you today?” Usually people say “I’m doing GOOD” as opposed to “Well”.
“Good”, as well I would argue as, “Better” implies a moral componant, as opposed to “well” which simply means something akin to “no problems today”.
Are the Cylons really better because they’re faster/stronger/downloadable? Or are they smply able to do more/different things?
For me it comes down to one thing (which gets touched on later in the series)
The humans militarily defeated the Cylons and entered into talks with them. Talks the Cylons decided not to participate in (somewhat analogous to the Korean War). Their answer to a brokered peace?
Genocide.
Six tends to forget that every time a human has the audacity to kill a “toaster”.
Remember Boomer/Sharon’s question to the Old Man.
Semper Fi-
Does “More capable” mean “Better”?
I’m not sniping here, I’m asking a question. It’s like the often-confused difference when someone says “How are you today?” Usually people say “I’m doing GOOD” as opposed to “Well”.
“Good”, as well I would argue as, “Better” implies a moral componant, as opposed to “well” which simply means something akin to “no problems today”.
Are the Cylons really better because they’re faster/stronger/downloadable? Or are they smply able to do more/different things?
For me it comes down to one thing (which gets touched on later in the series)
The humans militarily defeated the Cylons and entered into talks with them. Talks the Cylons decided not to participate in (somewhat analogous to the Korean War). Their answer to a brokered peace?
Genocide.
Six tends to forget that every time a human has the audacity to kill a “toaster”.
Remember Boomer/Sharon’s question to the Old Man.
Semper Fi-