Today’s devil’s choice

So, before I introduce the poll I’m about to introduce, let me start by saying that I like sex. I really, really, really like sex. It’s fun, it’s enjoyable, it’s an amazing gateway to intimacy and shared experience, it’s an awesome tool for getting to know someone (and yourself), and it’s fun.

No surprise there.

So, here’s the poll. It’s a simple, one-question, yes/no thing:

Someone comes up to you and offers to place you into a fit, healthy, 23-year-old body. This new body will be completely immune to all diseases, and also totally free of the ravages of aging. You’ll never get old and you’ll never be sick; excluding accident or deliberate choice, you won’t die.

But, there’s a catch. You’ll never have sex again. You won’t feel the urge, you won’t have a sex drive, nada.

Do you take the deal?

Me, I say “yes,” for the very simple reason that giving up sex for radically extended life seems like a no-brainer to me. After all, I can’t have sex when I’m dead! So to me the question actually reads “Would you like to not have sex and also be dead, or would you prefer to not have sex but still be alive?” Since I take joy in many things in life other than sex, like bacon and cats and friends and blue skies and spinning fire and World of Warcraft and Leonardo da Vinci and vodka cranberries and VNV Nation and flying kites, the choice between “no sex and also dead” or “no sex but still alive” is an easy one.

Plus, I think that if I were given enough time, I’d probably find something just as good as sex. zaiah thinks that I’m an optimist.

154 thoughts on “Today’s devil’s choice

  1. No more bipolar or thyroid problems? No more being dependent on medication? Sign me up!

    [added after reading comments]

    I don’t see this as being trapped in immortality. I see this, “you’ll never get old and you’ll never be sick; excluding accident or deliberate choice, you won’t die”, as an increased chance of choosing the method, timing, and circumstances of one’s own death. Not life forever, but life until I’m ready to leave.

  2. No more bipolar or thyroid problems? No more being dependent on medication? Sign me up!

    [added after reading comments]

    I don’t see this as being trapped in immortality. I see this, “you’ll never get old and you’ll never be sick; excluding accident or deliberate choice, you won’t die”, as an increased chance of choosing the method, timing, and circumstances of one’s own death. Not life forever, but life until I’m ready to leave.

  3. My first reaction was “hell no”, but you make a fairly convincing argument… and then I thought about all the ways a person (especially a kinky person like me) could find to replace the act of sex, or even things of a sexual nature. Once I realized the long list of other things I already do that give me the same intimacy and emotional connections to my partners, it was an easy answer…

  4. My first reaction was “hell no”, but you make a fairly convincing argument… and then I thought about all the ways a person (especially a kinky person like me) could find to replace the act of sex, or even things of a sexual nature. Once I realized the long list of other things I already do that give me the same intimacy and emotional connections to my partners, it was an easy answer…

  5. A big no from me. While living forever sounds appealing and fun, it’s a lot less attractive if I lose what to me is a fundamental part of the human experience.

    Sex is more than the naked banging of bodies together resulting in a genital sneeze – it grows and transforms throughout the day, whether inspired by a look, a meal, a dirty text message or just being stripped naked and thrown against the tiles in the shower.

    I’d miss that!

    • This.

      I think is still, in his model, giving himself some sex.. the kite flying will get him off or something – but I just keep seeing it as an elimination of all that excitement and joy and sharing it with another person that sex is, beyond just the pressing of flesh, to be an abhorrent thing to lose.

      I’m only a little scared of living forever, but willing to take the chance. I like facing my fears. But telling me I have to give up the connection with another that ‘sex’ is to me sounds like a terrible price to pay for the opportunity. Yes I have friendships and family relationship with whom there is no sex and we are bonded.. affectionate.. but they are NOT my life partners and the type of emotional relationship I end up forming with them is very, very different.

      So.. that is to say.. I would be wiling to give up the pressing of flesh for immortality.. but I would not be willing to give up the ability to bond significantly with another. And as sex to me, now, is far more than the pressing of flesh, I would be giving up a whole lot of ME. That does not seem worth it.

      • *nods* Thus, to me, the need to define ‘sex’ before the deal is really answerable – are we talking the interest in genital interaction, the urge for cuddles and caresses, the joy of kink, the urge towards intimacy? Each one evokes very different answers for me. Take away even the joy of a kite or a waterfall and at that point my answer is pretty solidly “immortality, to what end?”

  6. A big no from me. While living forever sounds appealing and fun, it’s a lot less attractive if I lose what to me is a fundamental part of the human experience.

    Sex is more than the naked banging of bodies together resulting in a genital sneeze – it grows and transforms throughout the day, whether inspired by a look, a meal, a dirty text message or just being stripped naked and thrown against the tiles in the shower.

    I’d miss that!

  7. I said “no” mostly because…

    1) No one takes a 23-year-old seriously. Change that to a 35- or 40-year-old and I might change my mind.

    2) Like others have said, I don’t want to live forever. Watching those I love get old and die isn’t worth the trade-off of exploring what more life may have to offer.

  8. I said “no” mostly because…

    1) No one takes a 23-year-old seriously. Change that to a 35- or 40-year-old and I might change my mind.

    2) Like others have said, I don’t want to live forever. Watching those I love get old and die isn’t worth the trade-off of exploring what more life may have to offer.

  9. hi, there.

    Found your entry thru reading kiki’s friends-list.

    I’m no sex maniac nympho, but I don’t think I’d be who I am without my sex drive. Not to get too Freudian about it, but I’d guess that at least 30% of my life choices, and perhaps more, were due to either serving or sublimating my sexual urges.

    My 2 cents. Thanks for the interesting post.

  10. hi, there.

    Found your entry thru reading kiki’s friends-list.

    I’m no sex maniac nympho, but I don’t think I’d be who I am without my sex drive. Not to get too Freudian about it, but I’d guess that at least 30% of my life choices, and perhaps more, were due to either serving or sublimating my sexual urges.

    My 2 cents. Thanks for the interesting post.

  11. No, ’cause I figure enough sex can actually help me stay healthy. Also, if I had a permanently young, hot, healthy body chances are good I’d wind up using it to become the world’s most famous porn star and not enjoy a minute of it. How sad.

    Sex and death, I say!

  12. No, ’cause I figure enough sex can actually help me stay healthy. Also, if I had a permanently young, hot, healthy body chances are good I’d wind up using it to become the world’s most famous porn star and not enjoy a minute of it. How sad.

    Sex and death, I say!

  13. No. Mainly because I would hate to have to watch everyone I love grow old and die and not be able to do anything about it. After a few decades of that, what part of my humanity would be left? Also, who wants to have to explain to their own descendants hundreds of years in the future that you are, in fact, their ancestor? No thank you. I’ll take my chronic pain, the anxiety meds I take, the sometimes inescapable urge to hide in my closet when things are going wrong, etc. Living forever holds absolutely no allure to me.

  14. No. Mainly because I would hate to have to watch everyone I love grow old and die and not be able to do anything about it. After a few decades of that, what part of my humanity would be left? Also, who wants to have to explain to their own descendants hundreds of years in the future that you are, in fact, their ancestor? No thank you. I’ll take my chronic pain, the anxiety meds I take, the sometimes inescapable urge to hide in my closet when things are going wrong, etc. Living forever holds absolutely no allure to me.

  15. This.

    I think is still, in his model, giving himself some sex.. the kite flying will get him off or something – but I just keep seeing it as an elimination of all that excitement and joy and sharing it with another person that sex is, beyond just the pressing of flesh, to be an abhorrent thing to lose.

    I’m only a little scared of living forever, but willing to take the chance. I like facing my fears. But telling me I have to give up the connection with another that ‘sex’ is to me sounds like a terrible price to pay for the opportunity. Yes I have friendships and family relationship with whom there is no sex and we are bonded.. affectionate.. but they are NOT my life partners and the type of emotional relationship I end up forming with them is very, very different.

    So.. that is to say.. I would be wiling to give up the pressing of flesh for immortality.. but I would not be willing to give up the ability to bond significantly with another. And as sex to me, now, is far more than the pressing of flesh, I would be giving up a whole lot of ME. That does not seem worth it.

  16. Seems like a double-bonus, to me. Much as sex can be good, I’d be extremely curious to view the world and its dynamics without a sex drive. I suspect it would free me from a lot of things, and even if it didn’t, life beats sex any day of the week.

  17. Seems like a double-bonus, to me. Much as sex can be good, I’d be extremely curious to view the world and its dynamics without a sex drive. I suspect it would free me from a lot of things, and even if it didn’t, life beats sex any day of the week.

  18. I say no.

    While not very fluffy or woo-woo, far too much of my creative life feels sexual to me. If I had no sexual drive, I don’t think I’d have a creative drive.

    I’d rather BE dead.

    • *nod*
      My connection to the world feels sexual.

      But more then that immortality seems like a kind of vanity I can’t really support, from what I can tell the whole planned obselance of people seems to lead to better models. I am not one to buck the goddess evolution in her works nor do I think I am good enough to be considered an end point in her cycles.

  19. I say no.

    While not very fluffy or woo-woo, far too much of my creative life feels sexual to me. If I had no sexual drive, I don’t think I’d have a creative drive.

    I’d rather BE dead.

  20. no, for many reasons.

    a lot of people talk about how hard it would be to watch your loved ones die over and over. i think more about how hard it would be for my loved ones to watch me not going through what they were going through.

    i can’t speak from personal experience, having never yet had a relationship that lasted for more than 1.5 years. but one of the things that sounds most romantic to me about the stereotypical idea of love is
    going through things with your partner. occasionally i get envious of a couple i know who have an open marriage and have been together 11 years. i’m not envious of them specifically… they’re attractive, great people, but i’m not romantically interested in either of them. but i just can’t imagine what it would be like to share that much of your life with somebody else. over the past 11 years, i’ve weighed +-50 pounds, had every imaginable color/style of hair, wildly different appearances and interests, changed careers and educational paths, etc… i’m not the same person at all. so having a romantic partner who saw all of that firsthand and watched me change and changed with me would be very interesting.

    if i was perpetually 23, my partners would age and i would not. they might be into that for awhile… who doesn’t like a young, hot 23 year old? but i think it would start to feel bizarre for them when they had grey hair and gained 50 pounds and i looked as young and perky as ever. similarly, other people would treat our relationships weirdly, like harold & maude. they’d give my poor partners all kinds of shit about robbing the cradle and would scoff at my existence.

    they’d likely start feeling strange about dating a 23 year old at age 43 or 53, even if my mind was similar to their own. and when they started getting older and realized that they would soon die and i never would, it seems like they’d inevitably feel different and separated from me. they’d be going through health problems and mental problems that i had no firsthand experience with and would never be able to fully relate to or understand.

    i would not be happy with a partner who had no sex drive. a partner who has a significantly lower sex drive is one thing… not at all ideal, but not insurmountable either, esp. if they’re okay with me having multiple partners. but someone who could never enjoy my touch sexually no matter what i tried… that’d trouble me.

    so i wouldn’t want to damn anyone else who fell in love with me to the same fate. i’d essentially only be able to have partners who were asexual for the rest of my immortal life.

    although i don’t feel the need to have a life partner, the idea of not having a life partner and being immortal is significantly more troubling. maybe it’s because i currently don’t feel the need to have a life partner but i still have the option available. if i wake up one day and change my mind and decide that i must find one immediately, i can still do that. if i were immortal, i’d know that i could for sure never have anyone who was ’til death do us part’ under any circumstance, no matter how amazing they were and how much they felt similarly about me.

  21. no, for many reasons.

    a lot of people talk about how hard it would be to watch your loved ones die over and over. i think more about how hard it would be for my loved ones to watch me not going through what they were going through.

    i can’t speak from personal experience, having never yet had a relationship that lasted for more than 1.5 years. but one of the things that sounds most romantic to me about the stereotypical idea of love is
    going through things with your partner. occasionally i get envious of a couple i know who have an open marriage and have been together 11 years. i’m not envious of them specifically… they’re attractive, great people, but i’m not romantically interested in either of them. but i just can’t imagine what it would be like to share that much of your life with somebody else. over the past 11 years, i’ve weighed +-50 pounds, had every imaginable color/style of hair, wildly different appearances and interests, changed careers and educational paths, etc… i’m not the same person at all. so having a romantic partner who saw all of that firsthand and watched me change and changed with me would be very interesting.

    if i was perpetually 23, my partners would age and i would not. they might be into that for awhile… who doesn’t like a young, hot 23 year old? but i think it would start to feel bizarre for them when they had grey hair and gained 50 pounds and i looked as young and perky as ever. similarly, other people would treat our relationships weirdly, like harold & maude. they’d give my poor partners all kinds of shit about robbing the cradle and would scoff at my existence.

    they’d likely start feeling strange about dating a 23 year old at age 43 or 53, even if my mind was similar to their own. and when they started getting older and realized that they would soon die and i never would, it seems like they’d inevitably feel different and separated from me. they’d be going through health problems and mental problems that i had no firsthand experience with and would never be able to fully relate to or understand.

    i would not be happy with a partner who had no sex drive. a partner who has a significantly lower sex drive is one thing… not at all ideal, but not insurmountable either, esp. if they’re okay with me having multiple partners. but someone who could never enjoy my touch sexually no matter what i tried… that’d trouble me.

    so i wouldn’t want to damn anyone else who fell in love with me to the same fate. i’d essentially only be able to have partners who were asexual for the rest of my immortal life.

    although i don’t feel the need to have a life partner, the idea of not having a life partner and being immortal is significantly more troubling. maybe it’s because i currently don’t feel the need to have a life partner but i still have the option available. if i wake up one day and change my mind and decide that i must find one immediately, i can still do that. if i were immortal, i’d know that i could for sure never have anyone who was ’til death do us part’ under any circumstance, no matter how amazing they were and how much they felt similarly about me.

  22. That’s a toughie. At first I was like “hell no, I’d rather be old and fucking”, but then it occurred to me that as long as I didn’t feel the urge to do it, as long as I wasn’t missing it, I’d be okay, there are as you say many other things in life to enjoy. So I voted yes.

    I’d want to be able to still fall in love and have romance, and still be able to have children. But think of all the places you could go and things you could see with all that time and endless youth. And you’d still have the admiration for your hot 23 year old self. I would certainly love to have my own 20 year old body back, but still knowing what I know now.

    But then I read the comments and thought, yeah, it would be nice to grow old with someone… so I don’t know. It’s a toughie!

    I guess it would really depend *when* you asked the person this question. If you asked someone in their thirties who still had lots of life to live and was enjoying a rousing sex life, they might say no; but how about someone at the end of their life, sick and old, perhaps not all that interested in sex anymore anyway? They’d jump at the chance, methinks…

    • That was my first thought when I originally read the poll – how it extends out into issues of illness and old age, both of which are more than capable of taking out sexual performance/desire. If that is the case, does the quality of life deteriorate to the point that it’s suddenly not worth living?

    • I’m in my early 30s and I immediately answered “yes”, no doubts at all. Reading the comments only confirms my choice. I don’t see why “growing old together” is a virtue of any relationship. It’s nothing but pain and heartache to watch your loved ones decay before your eyes.

      If the choice was made available to me, why does everyone assume that the same choice is not available to anyone else? Why *shouldn’t* I have partners who can experience life with me for as long as we both shall live … only with full health and excitement for life, not a slow and painful horror story as our loved ones decay after only a handful of decades?

      • Well, Franklin never did specify that everyone was given the same choice. If we all got to stay young together, that would be great. I suppose if we’re all immortal, there’s no reason to make new people, hence no reason for procreation (other than pleasure, of course, but since we’re not allowed to have sex….)

        It may be a slow and painful horror story (I don’t disagree, I’m not looking forward to it, and already dreading the signs of age I do see at 37) but it’s not one we get to get out of outside of the bounds of hypothetical questions. No one gets out of here alive. 😀

        • 🙂 speak for yourself! I’m going to have myself frozen until they discover a cure for aging and whatever else ails me. The “hypothetical” is becoming much closer to reality than a lot of people realize.

          It’s a long shot, of course, but an unlikely chance is still more promising than the absolute zero chance I’ll have when I’m dead.

          • Yeah, a friend of mine is having that done, via this outfit. He’s got this bracelet that says what to do with his body if he dies. However, he’s got the money for that sort of thing; I doubt I’ll ever have $150k sitting around that I don’t know what to do with.

          • I have to jump in here real quickly.

            I’m one of ‘s cryonicist sweeties, as is . We are also both signed up with Alcor. I can tell you with absolute certainty that neither of us has $150k of disposable income (or $300k, as my wife is also an Alcor member). 🙂 The most common method of funding cryonic suspension is via life insurance. You pay the premiums and name Alcor the beneficiary of the policy, and when the time comes the policy pays for the suspension and maintenance. Not all insurance companies will permit it, but Alcor is very helpful about finding a company and insurance agent who is familiar with the process. The point is that while the cost isn’t completely negligible, there are Alcor members at just about every socioeconomic level and you don’t need to be wealthy to be signed up.

            As a side note, let me take a moment and pimp my cryonics FAQ here: http://datan0de.livejournal.com/144534.html

  23. That’s a toughie. At first I was like “hell no, I’d rather be old and fucking”, but then it occurred to me that as long as I didn’t feel the urge to do it, as long as I wasn’t missing it, I’d be okay, there are as you say many other things in life to enjoy. So I voted yes.

    I’d want to be able to still fall in love and have romance, and still be able to have children. But think of all the places you could go and things you could see with all that time and endless youth. And you’d still have the admiration for your hot 23 year old self. I would certainly love to have my own 20 year old body back, but still knowing what I know now.

    But then I read the comments and thought, yeah, it would be nice to grow old with someone… so I don’t know. It’s a toughie!

    I guess it would really depend *when* you asked the person this question. If you asked someone in their thirties who still had lots of life to live and was enjoying a rousing sex life, they might say no; but how about someone at the end of their life, sick and old, perhaps not all that interested in sex anymore anyway? They’d jump at the chance, methinks…

  24. Something along these lines is why I’d probably say “no.” I was thinking of two things that would make it super-lonely:

    1) It would be hard to have relationships with people if I were to stay the same age while they moved on.

    2) It would be difficult to find a romantic partner, because most people are interested in sex, so they would be looking elsewhere.

  25. Something along these lines is why I’d probably say “no.” I was thinking of two things that would make it super-lonely:

    1) It would be hard to have relationships with people if I were to stay the same age while they moved on.

    2) It would be difficult to find a romantic partner, because most people are interested in sex, so they would be looking elsewhere.

  26. I would take the sexless immortality IF I could stipulate that my “fit, healthy, 23-year-old body” would be unattractive.

    I don’t want to spend eternity being hit on while asexual. Eventually I’d start killin’ people.

    • I suspect that all of the hot immortal 23 year olds would start killing people or otherwise being brutal and inhumane after a century or so. Maybe I am wrong, but I suspect that after a few lost loves and after everyone who knew you as a stupid kid died off you would start to feel disconnected and probably superior and that is typically a recipe for genocide.

      • Oh, I dunno. I have “time enough at last” urges, which I can’t indulge unless I turn out to be immortal. If I live long enough that everyone I know dies, I can curl up with a good library, and come back out every decade or so.

  27. I would take the sexless immortality IF I could stipulate that my “fit, healthy, 23-year-old body” would be unattractive.

    I don’t want to spend eternity being hit on while asexual. Eventually I’d start killin’ people.

  28. This is an easy call, give up the sex for the youthful body. Think about it this way. Name the first thing that comes into your head that you don’t want to do. Clean? Eat Broccoli? Auto repairs? Now, imagine if that’s how you felt about sex, because that’s how you’d feel under the scenario you outline.

    What would be a more difficult question is eternal youth in exchange for the desire to have sex with the inability to actually do it. Then that’s a far more tortured existence akin in some respects to a vampire, where you live forever, but you have an unquenchable thirst. In this case, nooky, not blood.

  29. This is an easy call, give up the sex for the youthful body. Think about it this way. Name the first thing that comes into your head that you don’t want to do. Clean? Eat Broccoli? Auto repairs? Now, imagine if that’s how you felt about sex, because that’s how you’d feel under the scenario you outline.

    What would be a more difficult question is eternal youth in exchange for the desire to have sex with the inability to actually do it. Then that’s a far more tortured existence akin in some respects to a vampire, where you live forever, but you have an unquenchable thirst. In this case, nooky, not blood.

  30. That was my first thought when I originally read the poll – how it extends out into issues of illness and old age, both of which are more than capable of taking out sexual performance/desire. If that is the case, does the quality of life deteriorate to the point that it’s suddenly not worth living?

  31. I saw no – but not for the reason you might think…

    Life is precious and gives us joy specifically because we have a finite amount of time in it. Time itself becomes a gift. If you never have to worry about growing old, or dying, then those things that you think mean a lot to you now – would simply cease to exist.

    You’ll out live everyone you know – and everyone you love. have that happen enough times and eventually you’re living an existence without love because it hurts too much. So then you wind up plodding along, subsisting, because those things that once had value no longer do.

    Not for me, thanks. 🙂

    • I don’t see any reason why removing the time limit means that everything that currently has meaning for me would cease to have meaning for me.

      Having more time to enjoy life would give it *more* meaning to me, because I could finally *take* the time to delve fully into any given interest. I could learn to play the fiddle that I keep putting off because I have to work. I could become a competitive dancer because I would have more time left to train (and no more health issues to inhibit my training). Just when I finally reach the peak of my career and start really making enough money to sustain myself, I wouldn’t have to begin that slow, downward spiral into poverty and government-assisted medical care with mounting bills correlating to declining income.

      I don’t see how it follows at all that the things I love would be less meaningful if I am given all the time in the world to experience those things more fully.

      And I don’t see how it follows that I would outlive everyone I know. If the option to live indefinitely is available to me, why should I assume it is also not available to others?

      And besides, whether it is or is not, I am *already* watching my loved ones die around me. As painful as it is, I heal, I move on, and I make more meaningful relationships.

  32. I saw no – but not for the reason you might think…

    Life is precious and gives us joy specifically because we have a finite amount of time in it. Time itself becomes a gift. If you never have to worry about growing old, or dying, then those things that you think mean a lot to you now – would simply cease to exist.

    You’ll out live everyone you know – and everyone you love. have that happen enough times and eventually you’re living an existence without love because it hurts too much. So then you wind up plodding along, subsisting, because those things that once had value no longer do.

    Not for me, thanks. 🙂

  33. No.

    I am a firm believer in ‘Buyer beware’ when it comes to medicine and magical quick fixes. You mention sex, but that could easily affect the desire for love, for companionship, for interpersonal relations. Eternity alone isn’t something I would consider a benefit.

    • Re: No.

      As someone whose sex drive periodically disappears, I can say with absolute certainty that the loss of sex does not automatically correlate to the loss of, or affect, the desire for love, for companionship or interpersonal relations. Some of my most intimate relationships and closest bondings do not include any sexuality at all.

  34. No.

    I am a firm believer in ‘Buyer beware’ when it comes to medicine and magical quick fixes. You mention sex, but that could easily affect the desire for love, for companionship, for interpersonal relations. Eternity alone isn’t something I would consider a benefit.

  35. So far, with every year past 40, sex is getting better and I’m still healthy enough to enjoy being tied up (ooohh maybe those two are related 😉

    I once thought that people over 40 didn’t have sex – now I look forward to having sex well into my 80’s – and I’ll still be getting tied up 😉

  36. So far, with every year past 40, sex is getting better and I’m still healthy enough to enjoy being tied up (ooohh maybe those two are related 😉

    I once thought that people over 40 didn’t have sex – now I look forward to having sex well into my 80’s – and I’ll still be getting tied up 😉

  37. This. The entire world around me would still be subject to the changes and ravages and rebirths of time, and the thought of standing outside that stream… well, not for me, thanks.

  38. This. The entire world around me would still be subject to the changes and ravages and rebirths of time, and the thought of standing outside that stream… well, not for me, thanks.

  39. [pardon me for not reading all the responses]

    this poll poses an excellent trade-off since sex->reproduction and it’s a good idea for the old to die to make way for the new, otherwise species stagnate. (bio major : p)
    I’ve never been afraid of death, i’ve always been afraid of immortality. since you put in the die-when-you-want caveat that makes it a little better, but I’d still go for kids>immortality. probably just because i have a very evolutionary view of “fitness”
    i’m not saying that reproducing is the only measure of fitness, it just mattes a lot to me.

    (sexual pleasure is not insignificant, but its not that high on my list of priorities)

    btw – i’ve been reading your lj for awhile but i never noted it, great writing you’ve got here, thanks.

  40. [pardon me for not reading all the responses]

    this poll poses an excellent trade-off since sex->reproduction and it’s a good idea for the old to die to make way for the new, otherwise species stagnate. (bio major : p)
    I’ve never been afraid of death, i’ve always been afraid of immortality. since you put in the die-when-you-want caveat that makes it a little better, but I’d still go for kids>immortality. probably just because i have a very evolutionary view of “fitness”
    i’m not saying that reproducing is the only measure of fitness, it just mattes a lot to me.

    (sexual pleasure is not insignificant, but its not that high on my list of priorities)

    btw – i’ve been reading your lj for awhile but i never noted it, great writing you’ve got here, thanks.

  41. so, not to be nit-picky, but which is it? you won’t have sex ever again because you’re incapable of sex for some reason, or you won’t desire sex/have a sex drive

    because they’re two totally different propositions… speaking as someone who has a few too many illnesses that make my sex drive almost non-existant, i still have a fairly active sex life for other reasons – i enjoy the physical closeness, many parts of good sex have zip to do with whether or not your body responds physically or chemically (even without orgasms, sex is still very good), and i love my partners so pleasing them is a pleasure and i can live vicariously through their reactions

    either way, i’d answer yes as long as i still had the same mind and looked like myself – i wouldn’t want to be someone else, however, i’d be thrilled to be a less broken version of me

    • eta – and if i can’t have “sex”, can i still be intimate in other ways? because there are lots of definitions of sex – and i can easily give up the classic definition of penetration, but if this means any/all intimacy that would make me reconsider my yes…

  42. so, not to be nit-picky, but which is it? you won’t have sex ever again because you’re incapable of sex for some reason, or you won’t desire sex/have a sex drive

    because they’re two totally different propositions… speaking as someone who has a few too many illnesses that make my sex drive almost non-existant, i still have a fairly active sex life for other reasons – i enjoy the physical closeness, many parts of good sex have zip to do with whether or not your body responds physically or chemically (even without orgasms, sex is still very good), and i love my partners so pleasing them is a pleasure and i can live vicariously through their reactions

    either way, i’d answer yes as long as i still had the same mind and looked like myself – i wouldn’t want to be someone else, however, i’d be thrilled to be a less broken version of me

  43. At this point in my life, I would say yes.

    I haven’t had sex very much, and they few times which I did have any, it wasn’t very enjoyable. Having the kind of sex I would want with the kind of people I would want seems unlikely to ever happen, at least any time soon. Won’t stop me from trying, of course, for as long as it’s still possible. But still, it’s not like I’m going to miss much.

    My youth was gone before I had a chance to really experience it. My parents, my mother especially, basically stole two decades of my life which I’ll never get back. Okay, that’s not entirely true, it’s partly my own fault as well, but it sure feels like it sometimes. I’d like it back now anyway, kthnx.

    I have a disability. Not born with it, causes no end of trouble, and I’d do nearly anything to get rid of it. This seems like a reasonable tradeoff, even if it were the only thing I’d get from it.

    Finally, the old “everyone you know will grow old and die” objection to immortality is currently meaningless to me – nearly everyone I have ever known has disappeared, dropped out of contact, or died. The few who haven’t are the ones who I wish would. I’m already used to that kind of thing.

    So the choice would be pretty easy. There’s always a chance I’d regret it later, but I’ve never had any problem living with regrets. The thing is, when I tell myself that something was the best choice I could have made at the time, I actually believe it.

  44. At this point in my life, I would say yes.

    I haven’t had sex very much, and they few times which I did have any, it wasn’t very enjoyable. Having the kind of sex I would want with the kind of people I would want seems unlikely to ever happen, at least any time soon. Won’t stop me from trying, of course, for as long as it’s still possible. But still, it’s not like I’m going to miss much.

    My youth was gone before I had a chance to really experience it. My parents, my mother especially, basically stole two decades of my life which I’ll never get back. Okay, that’s not entirely true, it’s partly my own fault as well, but it sure feels like it sometimes. I’d like it back now anyway, kthnx.

    I have a disability. Not born with it, causes no end of trouble, and I’d do nearly anything to get rid of it. This seems like a reasonable tradeoff, even if it were the only thing I’d get from it.

    Finally, the old “everyone you know will grow old and die” objection to immortality is currently meaningless to me – nearly everyone I have ever known has disappeared, dropped out of contact, or died. The few who haven’t are the ones who I wish would. I’m already used to that kind of thing.

    So the choice would be pretty easy. There’s always a chance I’d regret it later, but I’ve never had any problem living with regrets. The thing is, when I tell myself that something was the best choice I could have made at the time, I actually believe it.

  45. eta – and if i can’t have “sex”, can i still be intimate in other ways? because there are lots of definitions of sex – and i can easily give up the classic definition of penetration, but if this means any/all intimacy that would make me reconsider my yes…

  46. I’m curious how sex is being defined here, mostly because up until age 23 I’d never done anything involving other people, and I’m still quite content that way. (Yes, I know, I’m weird :))

    Assuming I can keep cuddling, there’s basically no downside to this deal for me, the way I’m wired.

    I’d also argue that “an immortal life is better than a mortal one, no matter the pleasures.” There’s rather a lot of philosophy around the notion that it’s not the length of life, but how it’s lived, that counts. I’d personally extend this even in to Transhumanism: it’s about making death a choice, being able to choose when you’re done. I’d seize a year of adventures and sensation over ten years of monotony and dead end jobs. (But the again, I don’t consider sex anything worth writing home about to begin with, so I don’t view the deal as a decrease in pleasure :))

  47. I’m curious how sex is being defined here, mostly because up until age 23 I’d never done anything involving other people, and I’m still quite content that way. (Yes, I know, I’m weird :))

    Assuming I can keep cuddling, there’s basically no downside to this deal for me, the way I’m wired.

    I’d also argue that “an immortal life is better than a mortal one, no matter the pleasures.” There’s rather a lot of philosophy around the notion that it’s not the length of life, but how it’s lived, that counts. I’d personally extend this even in to Transhumanism: it’s about making death a choice, being able to choose when you’re done. I’d seize a year of adventures and sensation over ten years of monotony and dead end jobs. (But the again, I don’t consider sex anything worth writing home about to begin with, so I don’t view the deal as a decrease in pleasure :))

  48. I’ve tried explaining this to people before, but it somehow always gets heard as “ doesn’t like sex”

    *grumble*

    Fuck yeah I’d give up sex for a chance to live more or less forever with no aging or disease! I can’t even fathom the mindset of people who wouldn’t choose that!

    • I also find it fascinating that everyone who chooses no assumes that the choice to live indefinitely or have sex and die is available to them alone.

      Me, I presume that if the choice is actually an option, than it is for others as well, so I wouldn’t necessarily be watching all my loved ones die around me while I go on forever.

      And besides, I already AM watching my loved ones die while I outlive them. It’s painful, but I move on and I make more meaningful relationships.

      And I have been incredibly bonded to another human without the benefit of a sexual relationship aiding that bond. Sex is merely one vehicle among many to achieve intimacy, and some of those other vehicles actually work better for me than sex, in building intimate connections.

      I honestly don’t see how I lose here, because there are other methods of building intimate relationships, I lose people and relationships *already* even without radical life extension, and in this thought experiment, I don’t see why I should assume that no one else will have the same option that I do, therefore giving me other people to bond to who will conceivably live as long as me.

      • What about those friends and family members who have the choice, but choose not to take it?

        I actually remember reading a book like that once, a long time ago – where they had discovered immortality, but not everyone chose to have the procedure – those who didn’t were called “Die Hards”, LOL.

        I guess there’s a lot of things left out of the question. Do other people get the choice? Can you still have kids? Is romance still possible?

        • I also don’t want children, so that problem is solved for me. Since I’ve personally experienced romance without sex, I don’t see why it should be assumed that “romance” is also excluded in this hypothetical.

        • What about those friends and family members who have the choice, but choose not to take it?

          That is their choice. I’d hope that everyone would be willing to respect and learn to cope with each other’s choices in this as in other areas.

    • (stupid can’t-edit-posts-for-free-members)

      AND I make this choice having just had one of the most deliciously sexually-charged weekends ever!

      As fantastic as sex is, my sex drive periodically disappears and I expect it to decline with age anyway, so I’m already accustomed to the idea that I’ll have to give up sex … and, in fact, have at various times in my life.

      Other stuff is just as good, particularly when you don’t want the sex to begin with.

  49. I’ve tried explaining this to people before, but it somehow always gets heard as “ doesn’t like sex”

    *grumble*

    Fuck yeah I’d give up sex for a chance to live more or less forever with no aging or disease! I can’t even fathom the mindset of people who wouldn’t choose that!

  50. *nods* Thus, to me, the need to define ‘sex’ before the deal is really answerable – are we talking the interest in genital interaction, the urge for cuddles and caresses, the joy of kink, the urge towards intimacy? Each one evokes very different answers for me. Take away even the joy of a kite or a waterfall and at that point my answer is pretty solidly “immortality, to what end?”

  51. I also find it fascinating that everyone who chooses no assumes that the choice to live indefinitely or have sex and die is available to them alone.

    Me, I presume that if the choice is actually an option, than it is for others as well, so I wouldn’t necessarily be watching all my loved ones die around me while I go on forever.

    And besides, I already AM watching my loved ones die while I outlive them. It’s painful, but I move on and I make more meaningful relationships.

    And I have been incredibly bonded to another human without the benefit of a sexual relationship aiding that bond. Sex is merely one vehicle among many to achieve intimacy, and some of those other vehicles actually work better for me than sex, in building intimate connections.

    I honestly don’t see how I lose here, because there are other methods of building intimate relationships, I lose people and relationships *already* even without radical life extension, and in this thought experiment, I don’t see why I should assume that no one else will have the same option that I do, therefore giving me other people to bond to who will conceivably live as long as me.

  52. I’m in my early 30s and I immediately answered “yes”, no doubts at all. Reading the comments only confirms my choice. I don’t see why “growing old together” is a virtue of any relationship. It’s nothing but pain and heartache to watch your loved ones decay before your eyes.

    If the choice was made available to me, why does everyone assume that the same choice is not available to anyone else? Why *shouldn’t* I have partners who can experience life with me for as long as we both shall live … only with full health and excitement for life, not a slow and painful horror story as our loved ones decay after only a handful of decades?

  53. I don’t see any reason why removing the time limit means that everything that currently has meaning for me would cease to have meaning for me.

    Having more time to enjoy life would give it *more* meaning to me, because I could finally *take* the time to delve fully into any given interest. I could learn to play the fiddle that I keep putting off because I have to work. I could become a competitive dancer because I would have more time left to train (and no more health issues to inhibit my training). Just when I finally reach the peak of my career and start really making enough money to sustain myself, I wouldn’t have to begin that slow, downward spiral into poverty and government-assisted medical care with mounting bills correlating to declining income.

    I don’t see how it follows at all that the things I love would be less meaningful if I am given all the time in the world to experience those things more fully.

    And I don’t see how it follows that I would outlive everyone I know. If the option to live indefinitely is available to me, why should I assume it is also not available to others?

    And besides, whether it is or is not, I am *already* watching my loved ones die around me. As painful as it is, I heal, I move on, and I make more meaningful relationships.

  54. Re: No.

    As someone whose sex drive periodically disappears, I can say with absolute certainty that the loss of sex does not automatically correlate to the loss of, or affect, the desire for love, for companionship or interpersonal relations. Some of my most intimate relationships and closest bondings do not include any sexuality at all.

  55. (stupid can’t-edit-posts-for-free-members)

    AND I make this choice having just had one of the most deliciously sexually-charged weekends ever!

    As fantastic as sex is, my sex drive periodically disappears and I expect it to decline with age anyway, so I’m already accustomed to the idea that I’ll have to give up sex … and, in fact, have at various times in my life.

    Other stuff is just as good, particularly when you don’t want the sex to begin with.

  56. Well, Franklin never did specify that everyone was given the same choice. If we all got to stay young together, that would be great. I suppose if we’re all immortal, there’s no reason to make new people, hence no reason for procreation (other than pleasure, of course, but since we’re not allowed to have sex….)

    It may be a slow and painful horror story (I don’t disagree, I’m not looking forward to it, and already dreading the signs of age I do see at 37) but it’s not one we get to get out of outside of the bounds of hypothetical questions. No one gets out of here alive. 😀

  57. 🙂 speak for yourself! I’m going to have myself frozen until they discover a cure for aging and whatever else ails me. The “hypothetical” is becoming much closer to reality than a lot of people realize.

    It’s a long shot, of course, but an unlikely chance is still more promising than the absolute zero chance I’ll have when I’m dead.

  58. What about those friends and family members who have the choice, but choose not to take it?

    I actually remember reading a book like that once, a long time ago – where they had discovered immortality, but not everyone chose to have the procedure – those who didn’t were called “Die Hards”, LOL.

    I guess there’s a lot of things left out of the question. Do other people get the choice? Can you still have kids? Is romance still possible?

  59. Yeah, a friend of mine is having that done, via this outfit. He’s got this bracelet that says what to do with his body if he dies. However, he’s got the money for that sort of thing; I doubt I’ll ever have $150k sitting around that I don’t know what to do with.

  60. I would take Option C. Because there’s always an Option C.

    I would ask the Someone if it would be possible to have my nice fit 23-year-old body put on hold for a few decades, until I get old an infirm, or catch some kind of terminal illness. In the meantime, I would make it my business to have truly ridiculous amounts of really, really good sex.

    After that, when I had a choice of dead or alive? Hell yeah I’d go for alive!

    Although, I have to say that it’s hard for me to imagine being entirely asexual and having no sex drive, and being okay with this. This is probably because any of the experiences I’ve had with having no sex drive have been because of Annoying Hormonal Imbalances which left me with a brain that really, really wanted to get it on, and a body which was entirely unco-operative. It was frustrating, to say the least. So all of my associations with “no sex drive” are negative, to say the least.

    I’d also be worried about what said above- relating to creativity and whatnot. For me, my ability to sensually interact with and enjoy being in the world has always been directly tied to my sex drive. The way that I enjoy music, the sea, trampolining, food, photography, cycling, swimming- even the kick that I get from solving a particularly knotty problem, coming across some aspect of theory that fits into whatever I’m researching at the time, even the feeling of finally getting a handle on ways of speaking in a new language- is deliciously sexy. Sensuality is sexual. Creativity is. Logic and making unexpected connections? Unbelievably sexy.

    In fact, the more I think about it, the more I see sex and libido as being inextricably tied to most of the things that make getting up in the morning* worthwhile. Sex isn’t just about sex.

    Of course, experiencing all of those things without that connection would be interesting! And, of course, if I really didn’t like it, then I could always off myself**. It would be quite fascinating, though, to see what kind of rewiring my brain would get up to, and how I would interpret all of these things, minus sex. So a definite, definite yes- but I’d want another few decades at least in this body first.

    Oh! And it just occurred to me! If I have the potential to live indefinitely, who’s to say that Someone Else might not come along in a century or three and offer me another new body with libido fully installed?

    *and, of course, staying in in the morning
    **but not get myself off, of course.

    • “In fact, the more I think about it, the more I see sex and libido as being inextricably tied to most of the things that make getting up in the morning* worthwhile.”

      Having spent periods of time where I felt like an alien thinking, “ewww.. why do people do that?” I think I can safely say that, at least for me, sex is part of the spectrum of excitement and creativity and discovery, not the cause of it. If you remove sex from the equation, there’s still just as much opportunity to experience color and intensity in life, it’s just not focused on the groin.

      • Hrm.

        I think that maybe I phrased things unclearly before? I should have mentioned this:

        When I’m talking about things being inextricably tied to sex, I mean something more like..

        For me, sexuality is inextricably tied into the way in which I experience and enjoy things that have nothing to do with sex. Not in a fetishey way- more that the way that I experience excitement and creativity and discovery is highly sensual. If that makes sense?

        Like… if I work out something that I’d never thought of before, the “kick” I get from that is close to the kick I get from sexiness, to the extent that I’m fairly sure that a lot of the same wiring is being zapped. Similarly, for me, any form of physical exercise which I like gives me an excitement+sensuality kick that, again, feels like it uses a lot of the same wiring as sexual things do.

        Now, this isn’t to say that I’m getting off all over the place on analysis and going for a swim. I’m just saying that, for me, sexuality is a huge part of how I experience sensuality, creativity, and whatnot. They use the same wiring. Also, at times when, due to Various Hormonal Things, I was not able to be sexual, my abilities to enjoy all of the other things lessened as well. Not that I couldn’t enjoy anything else, but there was a definite “missing link”.

        Again, your mileage almost certainly varies. It’s kind of fascinating how people experience all of these things in incredibly different ways, no?

        • Abstractly, that might be true, but I think when we’re talking about actual physical wiring, you can probably take away the drive for reproduction while keeping all the other intense sensations intact. Probably the main thing you would need to remove in order to kill the sex drive would be testosterone. But you still have oxytocin. vasopressin, endorphins etc. When a mother breast feeds, she gets a squirt from all “bonding” chemicals, (the same chemicals that release after orgasm), however for many women, they find that have almost a complete suppression of their sex drive right after birth. So, we have intimacy/bonding/pleasure with an absence of sex drive. Now, you could say that breast feeding is a sexual experience, but I think at that point we have to start completely redefining what we mean by “sexual”.

  61. I would take Option C. Because there’s always an Option C.

    I would ask the Someone if it would be possible to have my nice fit 23-year-old body put on hold for a few decades, until I get old an infirm, or catch some kind of terminal illness. In the meantime, I would make it my business to have truly ridiculous amounts of really, really good sex.

    After that, when I had a choice of dead or alive? Hell yeah I’d go for alive!

    Although, I have to say that it’s hard for me to imagine being entirely asexual and having no sex drive, and being okay with this. This is probably because any of the experiences I’ve had with having no sex drive have been because of Annoying Hormonal Imbalances which left me with a brain that really, really wanted to get it on, and a body which was entirely unco-operative. It was frustrating, to say the least. So all of my associations with “no sex drive” are negative, to say the least.

    I’d also be worried about what said above- relating to creativity and whatnot. For me, my ability to sensually interact with and enjoy being in the world has always been directly tied to my sex drive. The way that I enjoy music, the sea, trampolining, food, photography, cycling, swimming- even the kick that I get from solving a particularly knotty problem, coming across some aspect of theory that fits into whatever I’m researching at the time, even the feeling of finally getting a handle on ways of speaking in a new language- is deliciously sexy. Sensuality is sexual. Creativity is. Logic and making unexpected connections? Unbelievably sexy.

    In fact, the more I think about it, the more I see sex and libido as being inextricably tied to most of the things that make getting up in the morning* worthwhile. Sex isn’t just about sex.

    Of course, experiencing all of those things without that connection would be interesting! And, of course, if I really didn’t like it, then I could always off myself**. It would be quite fascinating, though, to see what kind of rewiring my brain would get up to, and how I would interpret all of these things, minus sex. So a definite, definite yes- but I’d want another few decades at least in this body first.

    Oh! And it just occurred to me! If I have the potential to live indefinitely, who’s to say that Someone Else might not come along in a century or three and offer me another new body with libido fully installed?

    *and, of course, staying in in the morning
    **but not get myself off, of course.

  62. I understood that the offer was to be taken immediately or given up completely, so I can’t say “Well, wait, let me get back to you on that when I’m 70”. And in this case, you can’t say that the choice is between dying and not having sex anyway and not dying and not having sex. It’s between having 30 more years of sex vs. many more years, but with no sex. And the answer is still yes. Lots of other awesome things to live for…

  63. I understood that the offer was to be taken immediately or given up completely, so I can’t say “Well, wait, let me get back to you on that when I’m 70”. And in this case, you can’t say that the choice is between dying and not having sex anyway and not dying and not having sex. It’s between having 30 more years of sex vs. many more years, but with no sex. And the answer is still yes. Lots of other awesome things to live for…

  64. I also don’t want children, so that problem is solved for me. Since I’ve personally experienced romance without sex, I don’t see why it should be assumed that “romance” is also excluded in this hypothetical.

  65. You know, all you’re asking here is “if you lost all interest in sex, and ability to have sex, would you want to continue living?”

    You specifically say that one could choose to die under these circumstances, they just wouldn’t be forced to. So you can’t use the “I’d be so miserable if I lived forever,” excuse. All you’re saying is, “you don’t have to die at some arbitrary point.”

    And, honestly, I’d think someone was pretty sick if they lost their sexuality and decided they didn’t want to live. But that’s essentially what many people are saying here.

  66. You know, all you’re asking here is “if you lost all interest in sex, and ability to have sex, would you want to continue living?”

    You specifically say that one could choose to die under these circumstances, they just wouldn’t be forced to. So you can’t use the “I’d be so miserable if I lived forever,” excuse. All you’re saying is, “you don’t have to die at some arbitrary point.”

    And, honestly, I’d think someone was pretty sick if they lost their sexuality and decided they didn’t want to live. But that’s essentially what many people are saying here.

  67. What about those friends and family members who have the choice, but choose not to take it?

    That is their choice. I’d hope that everyone would be willing to respect and learn to cope with each other’s choices in this as in other areas.

  68. No, but only because I don’t believe in magic.

    First lets make the assumption that this offer is good right now and not later. Otherwise, I could wait till I was old or in dire medical straits before taking them up on it. With that assumption that I can wait out of the way why would I say no?

    Because if it is not magic, it is a technology. As a technology this body swapping technique is bound to improve. Statistically I’m not likely to die in the next few year, though knowing this technology is around I might stop ridding a motorcycle for now. In a few years it’s likely the whole no sex bug will be worked out and I won’t be stuck with an early adopter beta test clone/robot/nano-goo whatever body. I’ll have next year’s model. The one that likes nookie and also likely can also fly.

    Of course if they explain that no, this is magic. I’ll require a much better proof of concept then them just saying “Hey, you want to give up sex for eternal life?”.

  69. No, but only because I don’t believe in magic.

    First lets make the assumption that this offer is good right now and not later. Otherwise, I could wait till I was old or in dire medical straits before taking them up on it. With that assumption that I can wait out of the way why would I say no?

    Because if it is not magic, it is a technology. As a technology this body swapping technique is bound to improve. Statistically I’m not likely to die in the next few year, though knowing this technology is around I might stop ridding a motorcycle for now. In a few years it’s likely the whole no sex bug will be worked out and I won’t be stuck with an early adopter beta test clone/robot/nano-goo whatever body. I’ll have next year’s model. The one that likes nookie and also likely can also fly.

    Of course if they explain that no, this is magic. I’ll require a much better proof of concept then them just saying “Hey, you want to give up sex for eternal life?”.

  70. “In fact, the more I think about it, the more I see sex and libido as being inextricably tied to most of the things that make getting up in the morning* worthwhile.”

    Having spent periods of time where I felt like an alien thinking, “ewww.. why do people do that?” I think I can safely say that, at least for me, sex is part of the spectrum of excitement and creativity and discovery, not the cause of it. If you remove sex from the equation, there’s still just as much opportunity to experience color and intensity in life, it’s just not focused on the groin.

  71. Hrm.

    I think that maybe I phrased things unclearly before? I should have mentioned this:

    When I’m talking about things being inextricably tied to sex, I mean something more like..

    For me, sexuality is inextricably tied into the way in which I experience and enjoy things that have nothing to do with sex. Not in a fetishey way- more that the way that I experience excitement and creativity and discovery is highly sensual. If that makes sense?

    Like… if I work out something that I’d never thought of before, the “kick” I get from that is close to the kick I get from sexiness, to the extent that I’m fairly sure that a lot of the same wiring is being zapped. Similarly, for me, any form of physical exercise which I like gives me an excitement+sensuality kick that, again, feels like it uses a lot of the same wiring as sexual things do.

    Now, this isn’t to say that I’m getting off all over the place on analysis and going for a swim. I’m just saying that, for me, sexuality is a huge part of how I experience sensuality, creativity, and whatnot. They use the same wiring. Also, at times when, due to Various Hormonal Things, I was not able to be sexual, my abilities to enjoy all of the other things lessened as well. Not that I couldn’t enjoy anything else, but there was a definite “missing link”.

    Again, your mileage almost certainly varies. It’s kind of fascinating how people experience all of these things in incredibly different ways, no?

  72. Abstractly, that might be true, but I think when we’re talking about actual physical wiring, you can probably take away the drive for reproduction while keeping all the other intense sensations intact. Probably the main thing you would need to remove in order to kill the sex drive would be testosterone. But you still have oxytocin. vasopressin, endorphins etc. When a mother breast feeds, she gets a squirt from all “bonding” chemicals, (the same chemicals that release after orgasm), however for many women, they find that have almost a complete suppression of their sex drive right after birth. So, we have intimacy/bonding/pleasure with an absence of sex drive. Now, you could say that breast feeding is a sexual experience, but I think at that point we have to start completely redefining what we mean by “sexual”.

  73. Ohhhyes.

    My mind abounds with all the good I could do… …or all the bad.

    I’d either end up being the world’s best hitman or the world’s best (erm, no word?) unoffical-orphanage runner.

  74. Ohhhyes.

    My mind abounds with all the good I could do… …or all the bad.

    I’d either end up being the world’s best hitman or the world’s best (erm, no word?) unoffical-orphanage runner.

  75. I have a whole shelf of unread books. I have tons of others I want to read. I have tons of interests. I could make amazing crafts. To be honest I don’t actually have sex that much though. I also enjoy just hanging out and being in love with my husband more than I enjoy the sex (even though it’s quite good when it happens). BUT I also loathe the idea of seeing all those around me die. And I didn’t really think about that when I voted Yes. Good thing this isn’t a real scenario!

  76. I have a whole shelf of unread books. I have tons of others I want to read. I have tons of interests. I could make amazing crafts. To be honest I don’t actually have sex that much though. I also enjoy just hanging out and being in love with my husband more than I enjoy the sex (even though it’s quite good when it happens). BUT I also loathe the idea of seeing all those around me die. And I didn’t really think about that when I voted Yes. Good thing this isn’t a real scenario!

  77. I have to jump in here real quickly.

    I’m one of ‘s cryonicist sweeties, as is . We are also both signed up with Alcor. I can tell you with absolute certainty that neither of us has $150k of disposable income (or $300k, as my wife is also an Alcor member). 🙂 The most common method of funding cryonic suspension is via life insurance. You pay the premiums and name Alcor the beneficiary of the policy, and when the time comes the policy pays for the suspension and maintenance. Not all insurance companies will permit it, but Alcor is very helpful about finding a company and insurance agent who is familiar with the process. The point is that while the cost isn’t completely negligible, there are Alcor members at just about every socioeconomic level and you don’t need to be wealthy to be signed up.

    As a side note, let me take a moment and pimp my cryonics FAQ here: http://datan0de.livejournal.com/144534.html

  78. Does the body have to be frozen at 23 years old? with that in mind, I was tending towards “no” before I even got to the sex part of the question. My image of 23 is so colored by experience of actual 23-year-olds, and my 23yo experiences, that that does not seem an attractive age to be stuck at.

    Let me be a fit and healthy 30 or so, and I’d give up sex; there’s plenty else to do.

  79. Does the body have to be frozen at 23 years old? with that in mind, I was tending towards “no” before I even got to the sex part of the question. My image of 23 is so colored by experience of actual 23-year-olds, and my 23yo experiences, that that does not seem an attractive age to be stuck at.

    Let me be a fit and healthy 30 or so, and I’d give up sex; there’s plenty else to do.

  80. The idea of living indefinitely without a companion who will also live indefinitely means I’ll have to get to know new people constantly, forever, in order to maintain a reasonable social life. Without sex – and I feel much the same way you do about it – as a shared experience to help new relationships become intimate, I might never experience the quality of relationships that I enjoy now, so what’s the point in living forever? Seems like an awfully lonely existence.

    makes a great point about no one taking a 23 year old seriously, too.

  81. The idea of living indefinitely without a companion who will also live indefinitely means I’ll have to get to know new people constantly, forever, in order to maintain a reasonable social life. Without sex – and I feel much the same way you do about it – as a shared experience to help new relationships become intimate, I might never experience the quality of relationships that I enjoy now, so what’s the point in living forever? Seems like an awfully lonely existence.

    makes a great point about no one taking a 23 year old seriously, too.

  82. I guess it depends on how old I was at the time of the offer. I’m 27 now, so, barring anything unforeseen, I still have a long life ahead of me. I think it would also depend on how you define sex and sex drive. Would that mean that I don’t crave any human touch? Would I be incapable of sex or capable and just not want it? What about actions that are sexual in some contexts but not all? With so many potential years ahead of me in either scenario I just have too many questions to be able to give a simple yes or no, and when put in that situation my gut instinct is usually to stick to what you know.

  83. I guess it depends on how old I was at the time of the offer. I’m 27 now, so, barring anything unforeseen, I still have a long life ahead of me. I think it would also depend on how you define sex and sex drive. Would that mean that I don’t crave any human touch? Would I be incapable of sex or capable and just not want it? What about actions that are sexual in some contexts but not all? With so many potential years ahead of me in either scenario I just have too many questions to be able to give a simple yes or no, and when put in that situation my gut instinct is usually to stick to what you know.

  84. So basically what you’re offering is a human-looking robot body (vaguely akin to Ghost in the Shell but with more modest physical capabilities) that lacks functioning genitalia but also doesn’t support the portion of the endocrine/nervous system responsible for sexual arousal? Like you, I’m a big fan of sex. It’s a significant part of my life, my world view, and my thought processes. That said, SIGN ME UP!! My only hesitation would be that making such a commitment would significantly alter my relationships, and thus should only be decided upon after some conversations, but ultimately I’d go for it. Sexual functions could possibly be added back in later on down the line, if that was even desirable.

    As others have mentioned, ideally I’d like some advance warning. With a few months notice (or hell, even a long weekend) there’s a laundry list of sex acts (and at least one or two specific partners) that I would very much like to explore before making a permanent change. However, even if that weren’t possible I’d still take the offer.

    As much as I fixate on just about everything associated with sex, it frequently borders on problematic. My sex drive is absurd, and if I don’t do something about it one way or another on a regular basis it becomes difficult to concentrate (and I have focus issues even on the best of days). I wish I had a switch so I could selectively turn it off. If I had no sex drive at all I’d get to work about a half hour earlier every day, I’d sleep better at night, I’d get more reading done, and I’d have TONS more available hard drive space on my computers. All this AND I get to live forever? The question becomes laughable. I’d probably take it even if it meant uploading into a robust computer system and giving up a physical body entirely.

  85. So basically what you’re offering is a human-looking robot body (vaguely akin to Ghost in the Shell but with more modest physical capabilities) that lacks functioning genitalia but also doesn’t support the portion of the endocrine/nervous system responsible for sexual arousal? Like you, I’m a big fan of sex. It’s a significant part of my life, my world view, and my thought processes. That said, SIGN ME UP!! My only hesitation would be that making such a commitment would significantly alter my relationships, and thus should only be decided upon after some conversations, but ultimately I’d go for it. Sexual functions could possibly be added back in later on down the line, if that was even desirable.

    As others have mentioned, ideally I’d like some advance warning. With a few months notice (or hell, even a long weekend) there’s a laundry list of sex acts (and at least one or two specific partners) that I would very much like to explore before making a permanent change. However, even if that weren’t possible I’d still take the offer.

    As much as I fixate on just about everything associated with sex, it frequently borders on problematic. My sex drive is absurd, and if I don’t do something about it one way or another on a regular basis it becomes difficult to concentrate (and I have focus issues even on the best of days). I wish I had a switch so I could selectively turn it off. If I had no sex drive at all I’d get to work about a half hour earlier every day, I’d sleep better at night, I’d get more reading done, and I’d have TONS more available hard drive space on my computers. All this AND I get to live forever? The question becomes laughable. I’d probably take it even if it meant uploading into a robust computer system and giving up a physical body entirely.

  86. For years I thought I’d never have a sex drive. It finally started to kick in around 19 (which was long after all my friends). But I’d give it up to live longer, fun though it may be. I’ll still be myself without it. I’d still be able to love and have fun.

    Yeah, okay, I’d missing out on growing old, I’d be suspciously young all the time, having a harder time forming and keeping relationships, not to mention having no sex drive. But that’s just the price you pay for having superpowers.

  87. For years I thought I’d never have a sex drive. It finally started to kick in around 19 (which was long after all my friends). But I’d give it up to live longer, fun though it may be. I’ll still be myself without it. I’d still be able to love and have fun.

    Yeah, okay, I’d missing out on growing old, I’d be suspciously young all the time, having a harder time forming and keeping relationships, not to mention having no sex drive. But that’s just the price you pay for having superpowers.

  88. I suspect that all of the hot immortal 23 year olds would start killing people or otherwise being brutal and inhumane after a century or so. Maybe I am wrong, but I suspect that after a few lost loves and after everyone who knew you as a stupid kid died off you would start to feel disconnected and probably superior and that is typically a recipe for genocide.

  89. *nod*
    My connection to the world feels sexual.

    But more then that immortality seems like a kind of vanity I can’t really support, from what I can tell the whole planned obselance of people seems to lead to better models. I am not one to buck the goddess evolution in her works nor do I think I am good enough to be considered an end point in her cycles.

  90. Oh, I dunno. I have “time enough at last” urges, which I can’t indulge unless I turn out to be immortal. If I live long enough that everyone I know dies, I can curl up with a good library, and come back out every decade or so.

  91. got here through a previous commenter..

    but I’m somewhere here also..

    Is this 23 year old body sterile or just lacks all libido?

    My answer to the poll would be “no” if it is sterile.. but “perhaps yes” if it is not sterile.

    passing on my genes is something fundamental to me.. and it would take a really big inducement to get me to give this up.. personal immortality is not big enough for me..

  92. got here through a previous commenter..

    but I’m somewhere here also..

    Is this 23 year old body sterile or just lacks all libido?

    My answer to the poll would be “no” if it is sterile.. but “perhaps yes” if it is not sterile.

    passing on my genes is something fundamental to me.. and it would take a really big inducement to get me to give this up.. personal immortality is not big enough for me..

  93. I answered no, but I haven’t been able to articulate why. Especially since I’ve already got about 3 things that qualify as just as good as sex. All three of which could be categorized as sex, if you chose to look at them that way, but none of which involve the genitals. Clearly I need to think about this more…

  94. I answered no, but I haven’t been able to articulate why. Especially since I’ve already got about 3 things that qualify as just as good as sex. All three of which could be categorized as sex, if you chose to look at them that way, but none of which involve the genitals. Clearly I need to think about this more…

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