So lately, I’ve noticed a trend.
More and more often, on various unrelated forums I read, it seems that anti-vaccination activism is becoming the trendy topic du jour. Decrying vaccinations as “dangerous” and “unproven” is hot these days; and worse yet, people are now advocating not immunizing children.
I keep seeing the same claims posted again and again on all these different forums…sometimes, word-for-word the same, which suggests that people are copying the information from one place and pasting it into another, without actually doing any research to verify the authenticity of this information.
This points, I think, to the same kind of credulity that lets people believe in the Loch Ness monster and the notion that human beings were created by space aliens from the tenth planet who used us as slaves to mine gold, but at the same time not believe that the world is round. Credulity pisses me off, as long-term readers of this journal will no doubt have noticed.
So I did some legwork. I visited a bunch of anti-vaccination Web sites, and made a list of the claims I’ve seen posted on many of these sites, and then tracked down the truth. I’ve invested, at this point, about seven or eight hours into looking up each of these claims, reading very dry articles, doing Google searches, looking at links, and compiling an assessment of whether the claims are true or false.
As it turns out, not all the claims are false. Some of them are true, though often not true in the way the activists campaigning against vaccination might think. And I found some surprises, too.
CLAIM: Children’s vaccines contain formaldehyde
STATUS: true
Sounds scary, doesn’t it? Formaldehyde is used to embalm people. You sure don’t want it in your body, right?
Formaldehyde is everywhere. It is produced naturally in our bodies during the normal, ordinary course of cellular metabolism. It’s used as a preservative in cheese and dried foods. It’s used as a preservative in many cold medicines, in dishwashing detergent, and in makeup. It comes out of the tailpipe of your car. It’s produced by gas stoves and grills; anything grilled contains formaldehyde. Think about that at your next Fourth of July barbecue!
CLAIM: Children’s vaccines contain mercury
STATUS: false
Some children’s vaccinations used to contain thimerosal, a preservative to prevent contamination by bacteria. Thimerosal contains mercury.
Many people have claimed that the mercury in thimerosal causes autism in children (more on this later). However, beginning in the early 1990s, manufacturers began phasing out the use of thimerosal in pediatric vaccinations. Today, no pediatric vaccines contain thimerosal. (It was discontinued in 1996.)
Some vaccines still do contain thimerosal; specifically, two type of influenza vaccine (Fluzone and Fluvirin) contain thimerosal as a preservative. (A non-thimerosal version of Fluzone, Fluzone 3, is available.) The amount present is quite small–25 micrograms per dose, which represents about 12.5 micrograms of mercury. How much is that? Well, a serving of mackerel contains about 73 micrograms of mercury; a serving of scallops, about 5 micrograms; a serving of swordfish, a whopping 97 micrograms. In other words, worrying about the mercury content of a vaccine is a bit silly for anyone who eats seafood…
As a side note, thimerosal is also found in some sore-throat spray and in contact lens solution.
CLAIM: Children’s vaccines contain aluminum phosphate
STATUS: true
Rabies vaccines, pneumonia vaccines, and DTaP vaccines contain aluminum phosphate.
What is it?
Aluminum phosphate is a naturally-occuring chemical compound that in its crystalline state is quite lovely. You may have some aluminum phosphate that you use for decoration somewhere in your house; its common name is “turquoise.”
Medically, aluminum phosphate is used as a drug to treat certain kinds of kidney failure. It is also used in the denture adhesive that people use on their dentures, and as an antacid. Yes, it’s true that aluminum phosphate can be toxic–and then again, dihydrogen monoxide is deadly if it’s inhaled. What’s dihydrogen monoxide? Oh, that…well, it’s sold under the trade name of “water.”
CLAIM: Children’s vaccines contain aluminum salts
STATUS: true
It’s true. Vaccines contain aluminum salts. So does your kitchen.
Aluminum phosphate is one kind of aluminum salt used in vaccines. Another is aluminum sulfate. Aluminum sulfate is toxic in large doses, but quite common and ordinary; its household name is “alum.” It’s one of the ingredients in common, everyday baking powder. It’s also used to make pickles, maraschino cherries, and gelatin. And oh noes! It’s in vaccines too!
CLAIM: Children’s vaccines contain methanol
STATUS: false
There are some vaccines, namely vaccines against a bacterial infection called Q-Fever and vaccines against tuberculosis, which are made by extracting DNA from the bacterium by using methanol. The viral vaccinations used to immunize children are not made this way.
Methanol is a naturally-occuring alcohol. It’s found in small quantities in diet colas, and it forms in the body when the artificial sweetener aspartame is broken down. It occurs naturally in fruits and vegetables, in fruit juice (especially orange juice, which contains quite a lot of methanol–34 milligrams per liter), and in fruit jellies and jams. In fact, methanol is found in almost any fruit or vegetable product. It’s hard to get away from…
…but it is not found in pediatric vaccines.
CLAIM: Children’s vaccines contain isopropyl
STATUS: nonsensical
“Isopropyl” is not a substance. The word “isopropyl” is an adjective; many compounds exist in isopropyl forms, such as isopropyl alcohol (ordinary rubbing alcohol), isopropyl unoprostone (a drug used to treat glaucoma), and so on.
Anti-vaccination activists are probably talking about isopropyl alcohol. When you get an injection of any kind, you are exposed to isopropyl alcohol. The nurse wipes your arm with a moist towelette soaked in it.
CLAIM: Children’s vaccines contain phenols
STATUS: true
Phenol, or carbonic acid, is a naturally occurring substance that is produced whenever wood burns or during the decay of any organic material. Phenol and phenolic compounds are found in smoked fish and meat; in fact, phenols are what give smoked food its flavor! Very large quantities of phenols are produced by cigarette smoke; one cigarette produces more phenols than are in 57 vaccinations, and most of those phenols are inhaled by people around the smoker, not the smoker himself. (The filter in a filtered cigarette removes phenol from the mainstream smoke.) Any parent who smokes need not worry about the phenol in a vaccination–just by being around the child, that parent is exposing the child to levels of phenols that are hundreds of thousands of times higher than what’s in a vaccine.
Oh, and if you’re worried about phenols, don’t live in the city, handle fiberglass insulation, or eat smoked food. Smog, car exhaust, insulation, and smoked food all contain very high levels of phenols.
And those bottles of “smoked flavoring” you can get at the grocery store, the sauce you pour on your steak to give it that authentic smoked flavor? The smoked flavor is phenol.
CLAIM: Children’s vaccines contain 2-pheoxyethanol
STATUS: false, but very interesting
Do a Google search for “2-pheoxyethanol.” You’ll get 155 hits. You know what’s interesting about that? There is no such thing as 2-pheoxyethanol. All of those hits are Web pages crusading against vaccines–and all of them pulled their information from the same source, which is a stunning example of how one source can appear to become “legitimate” when it gets picked up and passed all over the place. It’s also interesting because of all these hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of anti-vaccination Web pages and so on, nobody has done any basic fact-checking; they’re all just repeathing the same things without doing any research at all.
There’s no such thing as 2-pheoxyethanol. It’s a misspelling of “2-phenoxyethanol.”
2-phenoxyethanol still sounds pretty bad, though, doesn’t it? Look at that that name! Sounds like the kind of black, sludgy shit pouring out of the fiery Orc-pits in Mordor, doesn’t it?
In reality, it’s a natural antibiotic. It is used in some vaccines to prevent bacterial contamination. It’s also used to make laundry detergent and hand soap, and it’s used in makeup…in fact, it’s used in a lot of antimicrobial applications, like hand wash and stuff, any place you don’t want green fuzz growing or you want to get rid of green fuzz that may be growing.
Is it toxic? Unless you’re a bacterium, no.
CLAIM: No clinical studies or long-term controlled surveys have been done on vaccination
STATUS: false
This is a great example of the old maxim that any lie repeated often enough will be believed as true.
The people who believe this claim haven’t even done five minutes of research on Google. Not only is this claim false; it’s the exact opposite of the truth.
Not only are vaccines subject to rigorous clinical studies and long-term followup studies, but they’re the subject of much, much larger and more detailed clinical studies than any other drug. In fact, the clinical study of the polio vaccine is the largest clinical study in medical history. And the results are overwhelming: the polio vaccination provided 90% protection in the test group.
In fact, the polio vaccine is so dramatically effective that it looked for a while like polio, like smallpox, was destined to be completely eradicated from the face of the earth. Unfortunately, in the past few years, a political movement in Nigeria and Yemen, condemning vaccination as the white man’s way of killing impoverished third-world babies, has taken hold, with predictable results–polio has become endemic in Nigeria and is spreading to the surrounding areas and throughout Yemen.
Interestingly, vaccination has always been used as something of a racial hot potato. In Third World countries, people looking to spread fear and uncertainty point to white First World doctors as the enemy; in the developed world, white supremacist whackos claim that vaccines are part of a Jewish conspiracy. (More on that later.)
CLAIM: Vaccines have never been shown to confer immunity. All clinical studies show only correlation, not causation.
STATUS: false
Much of the vaccine effectiveness data is correlatory; nations with high rates of vaccination have lower incidence of serious disease, and in nations where the rate of vaccinations falls, the incidence of disease rises.
But correlation does not necessarily show causation; a link between the cause and the effect, and the mechanism by which the cause produces the effect, must be shown.
With vaccination, the means by which a vaccine works are well-documented. The body’s immune system works by producing antibodies in response to foreign agents such as bacteria and viruses. When a new bacterium or virus is introduced into the body, the immune cells attack the invader, then present the invader’s proteins to other cells which then produce antibodies against it. But this process is very slow; a virulent invader can kill you long before you can produce those antibodies. Vaccines use weakened or killed viruses; they do not cause illness, but they do give the immune system a target. The immune system responds just as if they were live, and eventually produces antibodies. The presence of these antibodies can be tested. You can test a person, show that he has no antibodies against a virus, give him a vaccine, then test him again and he will have those antibodies. You can also demonstrate that a person who has antibodies has a strong and rapid immune response to the virus. Pretty straightforward.
CLAIM: Vaccines short-circuit or circumvent the body’s defenses. When you inject someone with a vaccine, you bypass the body’s defenses.
STATUS: false
This is just silly.
The body’s immune system is carried in the blood. Your immune cells live in your bloodstream. Injecting someone with a vaccine doesn’t “bypass the body’s defenses;” it brings the virus straight to the body’s defenses.
CLAIM: Polio isn’t caused by a virus. The polio vaccine virus is useless, because polio is caused by other things like insecticides.
STATUS: false
Polio is not airborne; you can’t get it by being in the same room with someone who is infected. Because of that, some people falsely claim that polio is not contagious, and therefore isn’t caused by a virus. This is nonsense.
The polio virus is normally spread by contact with the biological waste of infected patients. In countries without good sanitation, where fecal contamination of drinking water is common, this is the normal route of infection.
The polio virus was first isolated in 1903, and was shown to be transferrable from filtered nervous tissue of infected people to other primates. This categorically rules out environmental toxins.
The polio virus has since been genetically sequenced, mapped, and modeled; its method of infection is now very well-understood. It’s an RNA virus, like HIV; unlike HIV, though, it does not rely on the enzyme reverse transcriptase for its operation.
CLAIM: Vaccines cause autism. We are facing an autism epidemic because of vaccines.
STATUS: false
A while ago, a bunch of newspaper headlines were made when a researcher announced a hypothesis that there might be a link between aluminum and Alzheimer’s disease. It got so much attention, in fact, that some people even threw away their aluminum pots and pans and stopped using deoderants (which contain aluminum salts). Later, after more research and investigation, it turned out to be a dead end.
But the dead ends, which are a normal and natural part of the scientific process (the greatest strength of the scientific method is that it is inherently self-correcting), don’t make newspaper headlines. Today, if you do a Google search for “aluminum” and “Alzheimer’s,” you’ll find hundreds of thousands of sites proclaiming that aluminum causes Alzheimer’s…even though no such link actually exists, and the researcher who first investigated the connection says it didn’t pan out.
Alzheimer’s is a scary and complex disease with no known cause. People don’t like that. People like certainty, and feel frightened and adrift, helpless to prevent things like Alzheimer’s, without it. So people latch on to certainty, and convince themselves that they can stop themselves from getting Alzheimer’s if they do not drink from aluminum cans.
Same deal with autism.
The researcher who first proposed a link between vaccinations and autism theorized that the thimerosal in vaccines, which contains mercury, might be responsible for brain dysfunction in developing children. Mercury is a known neurotoxin; it seemed likely that there might be a connection, and the knowledge of mercury’s effects made the link plausible.
But the research showed that the theory just didn’t pan out. Children who are not immunized are just as likely to be autistic as children who are.
And, of course, modern pediatric vaccines do not contain mercury, so even if there had been a link, it’s a dead issue now.
Still, that does not stop worried parents from latching on to this idea because it gives them a sense of power and control over a very frightening and potentially devastating thing. Parents generally want to protect their children, and they want to keep them safe. If someone comes along and tells you “Do what I say and your child will be protected from autism,” well, a lot of people will believe him.
Many parents have tales of how their child seemed normal before a vaccine and displayed signs of autism some time after. This is to be expected; children who are autistic start showing signs of it at about the same age when children get their first immunizations. As the anti-vaccination people like to point out when talking about immunity: correlation does not show causation! Yet in this case, they ignore their own reasoning.
CLAIM: Vaccines are not responsible for a drop in illness. It was already dropping when vaccines were introduced.
STATUS: false
This seems like a reasonable claim; after all, better nutrition, better sanitation, and better overall healthcare do have an effect on public health, so it’s possible that a drop in major illnesses could be attributed to things other than vaccination, right?
Well, if that’s so, how come only the diseases for which vaccinations exist have dropped, and diseases that are not (or were not) immunized against have stayed the same? If better sanitation and better nutrition were responsible for the drop in polio and measles and mumps, then why did they not cause a drop in chicken pox, too?
And why, when vaccination rates decline, do these diseases return?
Fact is, the dramatic drop in once-common diseases like whooping cough, measles, mumps, and polio coincided with vaccinations against these diseases, and in places like Russia, where vaccination is on the decline, these diseases are recurring at the same rate that vaccination is waning.
CLAIM: Vaccines kill 500,000 Americans a year.
STATUS: false
Do you know someone who has died in a car accident? I do; most people do. Statistically speaking, it’s quite likely you know at least one person who’s died in a car wreck.
Every year, about 40,000 people die in the United States in car wrecks. Some people claim that over 500,000, or more than ten times this number, die from vaccinations every year. Were that true, statistically speaking, you and I and everyone else would know, personally, ten or eleven people who’d been killed by a vaccine.
Don’t think so.
CLAIM: Vaccines, along with artificial margarine, are part of a Jewish plot to kill Christians. And the Holocaust never happened.
STATUS: you figure it out
This is one of the most interesting things about the anti-vaccination movement: when you start aggressively searching for the sources of the information you find repeated over and over on the Web–something that takes a lot of patience, and sometimes some trips to the Wayback Machine archive of the Web, you find that, over and over, the source of the information is a broad coalition of white supremacist groups.
And that’s just really, really weird.
Thank you. I always love it when people do my legwork for me. 😉
I grew up in a country where polio was still endemic. It’s for damn sure my kids get vaccinated on schedule.
Just out of curiosity, which country was that?
Zaire (now Democratic Republic of Congo). My parents were medical missionaries. I have heartbreaking photos of children with polio braces constructed from rebar and inner tubes.
What a bunch of pro vaccine bullshit propaganda. Absolutely no clinical evidence given that formaldehyde when injected into the body of an infant or toddler is safe…quote your source (medical journal, lead author, date, year)…you can’t.
Quote your source on phenols being safe in this same patient population? C’mon…I want good medical (peer review) journals, not your self indulgent mindless crap that you spew that is based on your ignorant opinions and stories about Listerine and backyard barbeques…what a joke.
What drug company do you work for asshole?
Thank you. I always love it when people do my legwork for me. 😉
I grew up in a country where polio was still endemic. It’s for damn sure my kids get vaccinated on schedule.
Go Go Gadget Research.
I’m leery of vaccinations for me because we have a family history of severe drug reactions, including near-fatal reactions to vaccines. (I was hospitalized as an infant and nearly died, there’s other family members who have gotten anywhere from violently ill to hospitalized at various ages.) I don’t think it’s inherent in the vaccines. We know our familial biochemistry bites.
I vaccinated the kid when she was small, anyway. We were just really careful to not get the big combo vaccine but to get the separate ones that were less stress on her system and so we would know what she reacted to, if she did. Any vaccines she gets from here on in will be her choice.
Re: Go Go Gadget Research.
This is part of my concern on vaccinations…family history of reactions. So we’ve decided to do the same thing you did when our little one gets here (in the next few days or so). WE’re going to have her vaccinated. We’ve just decided that they will be done individually and spaced out so that we’ll know if she reacted to them.
That said, I second all the thanks for doing legwork.
Go Go Gadget Research.
I’m leery of vaccinations for me because we have a family history of severe drug reactions, including near-fatal reactions to vaccines. (I was hospitalized as an infant and nearly died, there’s other family members who have gotten anywhere from violently ill to hospitalized at various ages.) I don’t think it’s inherent in the vaccines. We know our familial biochemistry bites.
I vaccinated the kid when she was small, anyway. We were just really careful to not get the big combo vaccine but to get the separate ones that were less stress on her system and so we would know what she reacted to, if she did. Any vaccines she gets from here on in will be her choice.
it makes me all smug that I already knew some of this, and understood the rest.
What a bunch of pro vaccine bullshit propaganda. Absolutely no clinical evidence given that formaldehyde when injected into the body of an infant or toddler is safe…quote your source (medical journal, lead author, date, year)…you can’t.
Quote your source on phenols being safe in this same patient population? C’mon…I want good medical (peer review) journals, not your self indulgent mindless crap that you spew that is based on your ignorant opinions and stories about Listerine and backyard barbeques…what a joke.
What drug company do you work for asshole?
I think your trolling missed the mark, dude.
it makes me all smug that I already knew some of this, and understood the rest.
Immunization
The topic of immunization (and whether or not to do so) always gets me in a frothing rant. My story and about 1/10th of my usual frothing rant (with plenty of facts) here.
Good for you for putting up facts and debunking the lies.
Immunization
The topic of immunization (and whether or not to do so) always gets me in a frothing rant. My story and about 1/10th of my usual frothing rant (with plenty of facts) here.
Good for you for putting up facts and debunking the lies.
I did not know these things. That was very informative. Just out of curiosity, what is your opinion on flu shots?
Depends on the situation. The problem with flu shots is that the vaccines need to be made in advance of flu season, and it’s not always possible to predict in advance which flu strains will be most prevalent.
They’re a good idea, at least in thimerosal-free formulations, for people at high risk of serious illness or death from influenza, but I think they’re less necessary for the population at large.
(popped over here via)
It’s interesting that, for other diseases for which we have vaccines, we go for herd immunity, even when the personal risk of infection might be low, but for the flu we target people who are high-risk. That may need to change as we get more concerned about pandemic flu. There are studies coming out these days that suggest a better route would be to vaccinate those most likely to transmit, especially young children. Communities that vaccinate schoolchildren have lower overall infection rates than those that primarily concentrate on the elderly, the very young, and the immune-suppressed. (I ought to have links for you, but alas, I am lazy.)
You can look at Ontario’s statistics, if they’re published already. For the last three years, they’ve been immunizing anyone who cares to walk into a doctor’s office. I don’t know if this has resulted in a noticeable decrease in flu incidences, especially since the vaccines are only made available to the general public around the beginning of November. Before then, high-risk groups get priority.
I did not know these things. That was very informative. Just out of curiosity, what is your opinion on flu shots?
Re: Go Go Gadget Research.
This is part of my concern on vaccinations…family history of reactions. So we’ve decided to do the same thing you did when our little one gets here (in the next few days or so). WE’re going to have her vaccinated. We’ve just decided that they will be done individually and spaced out so that we’ll know if she reacted to them.
That said, I second all the thanks for doing legwork.
I’ve heard and heard this again and again… and I have to give you an A+ on this one. You certainly made it more interesting than the many professors who have come before you. Thanks much.
Information is power…
power to the people…
right on!
I’ve heard and heard this again and again… and I have to give you an A+ on this one. You certainly made it more interesting than the many professors who have come before you. Thanks much.
Information is power…
power to the people…
right on!
Dude, that thing about the Earth and the gold-mining doesn’t even make sense. It’s not even a narrative. Okay, maybe if I was seriously tripping my brains out it would coalesce into a narrative, but outside of that, it barely even qualifies as grammatically correct English in most places.
You know, funny you should mention that…
Sasha Lessin, founder of the “World Polyamory Association,” received his Ph.D. from UCLA in the 1960s on the strength of his “research” into the origins of humans as the genetically engineered creations of the aliens from Zecharia Sitchin, the 12th planet (rather than the 10th planet…clearly, i misspoke!). What you read at that link is part of his thesis.
It’s a pity that there’s no such thing as malpractice on a university level…
Dude, that thing about the Earth and the gold-mining doesn’t even make sense. It’s not even a narrative. Okay, maybe if I was seriously tripping my brains out it would coalesce into a narrative, but outside of that, it barely even qualifies as grammatically correct English in most places.
An excellent article. Thank you!
i have just one quibble: As far as I’ve heard (and I do NOT follow this closely), the link between Alzheimer’s and aluminum is still being debated. For example, Relation between Aluminum Concentrations in Drinking Water and Alzheimer’s Disease: An 8-year Follow-up Study came out in 2000. Do you know of other, more recent or more complete studies that contradict this?
(The article is about aluminum salts in drinking water, NOT about whether drinking from an aluminum can will cause Alzheimer’s.)
An excellent article. Thank you!
i have just one quibble: As far as I’ve heard (and I do NOT follow this closely), the link between Alzheimer’s and aluminum is still being debated. For example, Relation between Aluminum Concentrations in Drinking Water and Alzheimer’s Disease: An 8-year Follow-up Study came out in 2000. Do you know of other, more recent or more complete studies that contradict this?
(The article is about aluminum salts in drinking water, NOT about whether drinking from an aluminum can will cause Alzheimer’s.)
Thanks. Very well-researched, of course. As a parent, I did some of this myself (but before the web became as much of a thing, so it was far more annoying). My neighbor down the street is a staunch anti-vaccinator (as well as being VERY big into homeopathy, and keeps a kosher kitchen. Interesting woman). She handed me enough information to cause me some concern, but after doing my own research, mostly I chose to go ahead and vaccinate our daughter on the usual schedule, with a few modifications:
1) Whenever possible we broke the vaccines into multiple components, rather than the big combined ones they do so much now. That allows one to see which vaccines are causing the trouble (if there is any), as well as allowing the body more time to adjust to each new challenge. It of course costs more (more shots, more equipment, and more doctor’s visits), so it’s not an option available to everyone.
2) We opted for the injected polio vaccine rather than the more common oral preparation. This is because (and at this point, I’m a bit fuzzy on it, since our decision making on this was 8+ years ago) the oral vaccine is made in such a way that it can in very rare cases pass through the system of the baby and enter the poop in an active state, posing a higher risk to the caregiver if that caregiver was not vaccinated, or had incomplete immunity. IIRC, all of the adult cases in this country in recent years (by which, of course, I mean approximately 1985-1995) came from children who had had the oral form of the vaccine and passed it on to un/undervaccinated caregivers. Because the oral form of the vaccine was new when we were children (therefore still not 100% effective), and because Akien’s parents died many years ago and we couldn’t ASK them what form of the vaccine he had gotten, we decided not to take the tiny risk and just opted for the safer injected form.
3) I’ve never been sure what to do about Chickenpox. I THINK Allegra has had it. But if so, she had an incredibly light case–a total of fewer than a dozen pox (while on vacation at her grandparents–THERE’S a tale to tell!). She got it from a kid who had been vaccinated and who had no presenting symptoms at the time. This is why I’m really suspicious of that particular vaccine. I’m not convinced that they have it right yet, and I think that REQUIRING it for children to enter PREschool is quite possibly setting ourselves up for a chickenpox epidemic 20 years from now (or whenever their incomplete immunity wears off). I’m betting that we’ll eventually find that this one requires a booster, but exactly how much and when has yet to be determined, of course. I’m all for adults getting the vaccine, though, if they haven’t had the disease yet–getting it as an adult is No Fun, and quite dangerous. So in general I’m in favor of giving it to kids if they haven’t had it by the time they hit elementary school, but requiring it for entering preschool is probably stupid, IMO. In general, they get better and stronger immunity from having the disease, and of all the childhood diseases it’s one of the least dangerous. I sure hope I’m wrong to worry about this, however. And I hope Allegra’s light case was “enough.” I’ll probably have her tested around age 13, to see if she shows immunity.
2) *nod* 8 years ago, the OPV was still a live vaccine – these days the polio vaccination (oral and injected) is in a killed form.
3) We opted for the Chickenpox vaccine for two reasons a) I understand the science. b) we knew that it may not confer 100% immunity – that our kids might still get the chickenpox – but the more important thing was to provide protection against the side effects of chickenpox which are the more worrisome problem in the first place. Kritter (my eldest) had the vaccine, then went on a few years later to get a moderate case (on the scale of mild, moderate, severe). Beena, my second child, received the vaccine and did not get any subsequent cases of it- or if she did, she literally got 1 pock. They’ve both had a chicken pox “challenge” since then, and neither one of them came down with it.
Ah, that’s good to know that they have changed the OPV to a killed form. That is much less worrisome.
Good to hear about your positive experience with the Varicella vaccine. I don’t know what they’re telling parents nowadays, but when we were first looking at it, they were still trying to say it would confer 100% immunity, which obviously, it doesn’t. The data on avoiding the other effects of the disease (shingles etc) was not widely available at the time. I don’t think I’d ever read it till I went looking the other night. Certainly that’s worth factoring into the decision=making process and highly worthwhile if it works. Certainly if Allegra turns up without immunity at this point, I’d go ahead and vaccinate her.
*nod* back when Kritter was immunized, the vaccine had just come out. I think the marketing material was saying 100% immunity, but our doctor was somewhat skeptical of the claim. It was he that pointed out that even if it didn’t work 100% and she ended up getting it anyway, the point was that the side effects would be lessened.
I loved that doctor – he was an awesome pediatrician. too bad I can’t move him up here from Muncie *chuckle* – then again, we have a pretty awesome pediatrician now too 🙂
(nod) I wish we were that happy with our pediatrician. We love our adult doc, but our ped. is not as good. Since we started with that office, we’ve had something like 4 regular docs, and a couple of temporary ones. The only one still there is the main doc, and it really makes me wonder…. I’ve been thinking it might be time to go looking for another one. It’s just such a painful process I’ve been avoiding it. ;^/
Thanks. Very well-researched, of course. As a parent, I did some of this myself (but before the web became as much of a thing, so it was far more annoying). My neighbor down the street is a staunch anti-vaccinator (as well as being VERY big into homeopathy, and keeps a kosher kitchen. Interesting woman). She handed me enough information to cause me some concern, but after doing my own research, mostly I chose to go ahead and vaccinate our daughter on the usual schedule, with a few modifications:
1) Whenever possible we broke the vaccines into multiple components, rather than the big combined ones they do so much now. That allows one to see which vaccines are causing the trouble (if there is any), as well as allowing the body more time to adjust to each new challenge. It of course costs more (more shots, more equipment, and more doctor’s visits), so it’s not an option available to everyone.
2) We opted for the injected polio vaccine rather than the more common oral preparation. This is because (and at this point, I’m a bit fuzzy on it, since our decision making on this was 8+ years ago) the oral vaccine is made in such a way that it can in very rare cases pass through the system of the baby and enter the poop in an active state, posing a higher risk to the caregiver if that caregiver was not vaccinated, or had incomplete immunity. IIRC, all of the adult cases in this country in recent years (by which, of course, I mean approximately 1985-1995) came from children who had had the oral form of the vaccine and passed it on to un/undervaccinated caregivers. Because the oral form of the vaccine was new when we were children (therefore still not 100% effective), and because Akien’s parents died many years ago and we couldn’t ASK them what form of the vaccine he had gotten, we decided not to take the tiny risk and just opted for the safer injected form.
3) I’ve never been sure what to do about Chickenpox. I THINK Allegra has had it. But if so, she had an incredibly light case–a total of fewer than a dozen pox (while on vacation at her grandparents–THERE’S a tale to tell!). She got it from a kid who had been vaccinated and who had no presenting symptoms at the time. This is why I’m really suspicious of that particular vaccine. I’m not convinced that they have it right yet, and I think that REQUIRING it for children to enter PREschool is quite possibly setting ourselves up for a chickenpox epidemic 20 years from now (or whenever their incomplete immunity wears off). I’m betting that we’ll eventually find that this one requires a booster, but exactly how much and when has yet to be determined, of course. I’m all for adults getting the vaccine, though, if they haven’t had the disease yet–getting it as an adult is No Fun, and quite dangerous. So in general I’m in favor of giving it to kids if they haven’t had it by the time they hit elementary school, but requiring it for entering preschool is probably stupid, IMO. In general, they get better and stronger immunity from having the disease, and of all the childhood diseases it’s one of the least dangerous. I sure hope I’m wrong to worry about this, however. And I hope Allegra’s light case was “enough.” I’ll probably have her tested around age 13, to see if she shows immunity.
Just out of curiosity, which country was that?
Do you think, though, that injecting substances like phenols and formaldehydes directly into the bloodstream could potentially pose more risks than otherwise consuming them as part of the diet does (not to say it wouldn’t be worth it)? Thank you for the elucidating article!
That’s an interesting question.
I did some research this morning on phenols specifically, and found this:
Sorry for my belated response! Wow, thank you for looking into that–really interesting stuff.
Do you have a science degree, or are you just an autodidact? I only ask because if it’s the latter, that’s very encouraging to me–I was started out my college work planning on studying molecular biology and math, and now because of certain exigencies I’m doing liberal-artsy stuff (still mathy with my areas of concentrations, but certainly not as in-depth as I would be studying for a normal b.s.). Everyone goes on about needing a degree to be able to affirm having a comprehensive knowledge of a subject…but you seem to be very scientific and well-versed and able to make very important well-reasoned decisions from a ton of data (and decide which of the data comes from more spurious sources)…but of course, if you do have a science degree, this whole statement probably doesn’t make much sense.
Sorry for rambing–hopefully you got the gist of what I said; I’m a bit sleepy! That stuff about Lysol and Listerine is very interesting and food for thought, and I forgot to consider membrane irritation being a possibility for the most salient side effect of exposure…thank you!
Something I’ve learned since reading up on vaccines: They are NOT injected into the bloodstream. They are injected into muscle.
I doubt there is any more risk than injesting orally, or by even breathing in through your nose (which is apparently a very effective way of transmitting stuff into your bloodstream).
Do you think, though, that injecting substances like phenols and formaldehydes directly into the bloodstream could potentially pose more risks than otherwise consuming them as part of the diet does (not to say it wouldn’t be worth it)? Thank you for the elucidating article!
CLAIM: Vaccines are not responsible for a drop in illness. It was already dropping when vaccines were introduced.
STATUS: false
I’ve seen several sites that said something like this when I was pointed to them during a debate on a parenting community. I think all of them denied the germ theory of disease, which is just as screwed up as the white supremecist stuff.
CLAIM: Vaccines are not responsible for a drop in illness. It was already dropping when vaccines were introduced.
STATUS: false
I’ve seen several sites that said something like this when I was pointed to them during a debate on a parenting community. I think all of them denied the germ theory of disease, which is just as screwed up as the white supremecist stuff.
That’s an interesting question.
I did some research this morning on phenols specifically, and found this:
Nice piece, well documented and researched.
If you get the chance “why people believe weird things” is worth reading.
Oh, yes, a hearty second to that suggestion!
Nice piece, well documented and researched.
If you get the chance “why people believe weird things” is worth reading.
Zaire (now Democratic Republic of Congo). My parents were medical missionaries. I have heartbreaking photos of children with polio braces constructed from rebar and inner tubes.
You know, funny you should mention that…
Sasha Lessin, founder of the “World Polyamory Association,” received his Ph.D. from UCLA in the 1960s on the strength of his “research” into the origins of humans as the genetically engineered creations of the aliens from Zecharia Sitchin, the 12th planet (rather than the 10th planet…clearly, i misspoke!). What you read at that link is part of his thesis.
It’s a pity that there’s no such thing as malpractice on a university level…
Depends on the situation. The problem with flu shots is that the vaccines need to be made in advance of flu season, and it’s not always possible to predict in advance which flu strains will be most prevalent.
They’re a good idea, at least in thimerosal-free formulations, for people at high risk of serious illness or death from influenza, but I think they’re less necessary for the population at large.
(popped over here via)
It’s interesting that, for other diseases for which we have vaccines, we go for herd immunity, even when the personal risk of infection might be low, but for the flu we target people who are high-risk. That may need to change as we get more concerned about pandemic flu. There are studies coming out these days that suggest a better route would be to vaccinate those most likely to transmit, especially young children. Communities that vaccinate schoolchildren have lower overall infection rates than those that primarily concentrate on the elderly, the very young, and the immune-suppressed. (I ought to have links for you, but alas, I am lazy.)
Very interesting and informative! I’d like to point out one important thing about autism: It has a stronger genetic component than any other neurological disease. If one identical twin has it, the risk to the other is something like 85%. So when parents of an autistic child start searching for scapegoats, they should first look in the mirror.
An interesting tidbit: The popular oral spray antiseptic “Chloraseptic” is 1% phenol. Anyone who has taken gross anatomy should be able to recognize the smell.
Did these studies control against immunization? As a first reaction, I find it highly doubtful that the parents of a pair of twins would immunize one but not the other.
Point. I’d like to know this, too.
twins don’t just have genes in common!
And how big is the chance that they only vaccinate ONE of the twins? If they didn’t do that than your case falls apart.
It’s basically like the “cancer is 80% (I don’t remember the given number) genetic” from Identical twin studies. The problem is that identical twins usually have very similar lives, chose often similar wives!, jobs, places to live, eat similar foods etc. Finding identical twins that were separated very early is the hard part to get for making this kind of study be able to mean something. Often even one that have been separated have made choices which exposed them to the same environmental factors.
Very interesting and informative! I’d like to point out one important thing about autism: It has a stronger genetic component than any other neurological disease. If one identical twin has it, the risk to the other is something like 85%. So when parents of an autistic child start searching for scapegoats, they should first look in the mirror.
An interesting tidbit: The popular oral spray antiseptic “Chloraseptic” is 1% phenol. Anyone who has taken gross anatomy should be able to recognize the smell.
You can look at Ontario’s statistics, if they’re published already. For the last three years, they’ve been immunizing anyone who cares to walk into a doctor’s office. I don’t know if this has resulted in a noticeable decrease in flu incidences, especially since the vaccines are only made available to the general public around the beginning of November. Before then, high-risk groups get priority.
Did these studies control against immunization? As a first reaction, I find it highly doubtful that the parents of a pair of twins would immunize one but not the other.
(I used‘s magic WWWormhole to get over here.)
Great article. Amazing how so many of those conspiracy theories come together. And you know what? Vaccines are often given by JEWISH DOCTORS! It’s all part of the plan for the huge database accessed to (((…sekret…))) libraries in the Vatican City, Africa, Washington D.C. and Jerusalem.
What a load of hogwash the anti-immunisation people spout. When I have kids (God willing and the creek don’t rise), I’ll jab them myself if I have to.
(I used‘s magic WWWormhole to get over here.)
Great article. Amazing how so many of those conspiracy theories come together. And you know what? Vaccines are often given by JEWISH DOCTORS! It’s all part of the plan for the huge database accessed to (((…sekret…))) libraries in the Vatican City, Africa, Washington D.C. and Jerusalem.
What a load of hogwash the anti-immunisation people spout. When I have kids (God willing and the creek don’t rise), I’ll jab them myself if I have to.
Excellent article, I’d not heard of half of those wild theories even, but it shows how easy it is to debunk things by just taking the time to check the facts.
On the autism front, there is a slight risk from the combined measles vaccine (called MMR in Britain) if you have a certain protein or genetic marker already that can cause an adverse reaction: a friend’s daughter was affected, and so they tested her youngest son for the same marker before giving him any vaccine, found there was a problem and did the separate ones. So there is a verified link but only in certain obscure circumstances, handy to be aware of such things though.
Uh, not really.
There is no more risk from the MMR than thimerosal for autism (the same population studies done for thimersal were done for MMR)… which is the same vaccine used in the USA since 1971 (the UK adopted it after having problems with the mumps component of their version, look the difference between Urabe versus Jeryl-Lynn (sp?) mumps vaccines).
The only reason that there is any controversy is because a gastrointerologist was paid by a lawyer to come up with specific data to support a lawsuit. You can reas up about it here:
http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm
It is to this pair you can thank for the upswing of mumps in young adults now in the UK. Thanks guys!
“On the autism front, there is a slight risk from the combined measles vaccine (called MMR in Britain) if you have a certain protein or genetic marker already that can cause an adverse reaction.” Can you provide a source for this statement? Because I’ve trawled through the literature, journals etc. and cannot find any published study that proves any link at all in any circumstances.
Excellent article, I’d not heard of half of those wild theories even, but it shows how easy it is to debunk things by just taking the time to check the facts.
On the autism front, there is a slight risk from the combined measles vaccine (called MMR in Britain) if you have a certain protein or genetic marker already that can cause an adverse reaction: a friend’s daughter was affected, and so they tested her youngest son for the same marker before giving him any vaccine, found there was a problem and did the separate ones. So there is a verified link but only in certain obscure circumstances, handy to be aware of such things though.
(I found you via too, isn’t she cool?)
Thank you very much for this post. I appreciate your work in lining up all these claims and checking them out.
One very minor nitpick: Carbonic acid is the weak acid that results when carbon dioxide is dissolved in water; its salts are called carbonates. The alternative name for phenol is carbolic acid. Of course, this doesn’t diminish the value on your discussion of phenol.
(I found you via too, isn’t she cool?)
Thank you very much for this post. I appreciate your work in lining up all these claims and checking them out.
One very minor nitpick: Carbonic acid is the weak acid that results when carbon dioxide is dissolved in water; its salts are called carbonates. The alternative name for phenol is carbolic acid. Of course, this doesn’t diminish the value on your discussion of phenol.
Excellent piece.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about the statistical probability of car accidents vs. other dangers.
Is viral mutation and the possibility of selecting for resistance or changed virulence ever a concern?
Perhaps it’s no big deal because the vaccine can always be reformulated using the new strain, and then again perhaps not in time.
Increased virulence perhaps because it makes more sense, after widespread vaccination, for the virus to reproduce really quickly and spread, even at the risk of killing the host before being able to spread.
Decreased virulence perhaps as a strategy to stay dormant untill the antibody count declines. Or come to think of it, perhaps even changed seasonality (a flu that spreads in autumn may avoid vaccination altogether).
Not reasons to avoid vaccines, but potentially interesting and important things for public health policy.
My speculations aside, thanks much for the article.
The interesting thing is that the vast majority of the vaccines that work and are tried and true (unlike the flu vaccine) come from strains of viruses that do not mutate quickly or at all. I’ve long since forgotten the term. But that’s specifically why they work so well as a protective factor.
Viruses that have a high probability of mutation are vaccines that have to be repeated – not because immunity wanes in the human (for example, the reason for boosters), but because the strains have effectively changed enough that a new vaccine is required.
Excellent piece.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about the statistical probability of car accidents vs. other dangers.
Is viral mutation and the possibility of selecting for resistance or changed virulence ever a concern?
Perhaps it’s no big deal because the vaccine can always be reformulated using the new strain, and then again perhaps not in time.
Increased virulence perhaps because it makes more sense, after widespread vaccination, for the virus to reproduce really quickly and spread, even at the risk of killing the host before being able to spread.
Decreased virulence perhaps as a strategy to stay dormant untill the antibody count declines. Or come to think of it, perhaps even changed seasonality (a flu that spreads in autumn may avoid vaccination altogether).
Not reasons to avoid vaccines, but potentially interesting and important things for public health policy.
My speculations aside, thanks much for the article.
2) *nod* 8 years ago, the OPV was still a live vaccine – these days the polio vaccination (oral and injected) is in a killed form.
3) We opted for the Chickenpox vaccine for two reasons a) I understand the science. b) we knew that it may not confer 100% immunity – that our kids might still get the chickenpox – but the more important thing was to provide protection against the side effects of chickenpox which are the more worrisome problem in the first place. Kritter (my eldest) had the vaccine, then went on a few years later to get a moderate case (on the scale of mild, moderate, severe). Beena, my second child, received the vaccine and did not get any subsequent cases of it- or if she did, she literally got 1 pock. They’ve both had a chicken pox “challenge” since then, and neither one of them came down with it.
I also found you via
Beautifully written, and thank you!
As mentioned above, I understand the science behind the research that goes into vaccines. Heck, I worked for a veterinary biologics company that does its own R&D into new vaccines and produces several veterinary vaccines. I’ve taken a course in immunology in addition to my background in biological science. *chuckle* and my degree is in Anthropology – so reading what people believe is not anything new. Anyway, in my duties at the VBC, I had to write up the research notes and put it in presentable form to submit to the USDA. It was good, well-controlled, research into efficacy, safety, and potency…and the USDA is no where *near* as strict as the FDA.
I also found you via
Beautifully written, and thank you!
As mentioned above, I understand the science behind the research that goes into vaccines. Heck, I worked for a veterinary biologics company that does its own R&D into new vaccines and produces several veterinary vaccines. I’ve taken a course in immunology in addition to my background in biological science. *chuckle* and my degree is in Anthropology – so reading what people believe is not anything new. Anyway, in my duties at the VBC, I had to write up the research notes and put it in presentable form to submit to the USDA. It was good, well-controlled, research into efficacy, safety, and potency…and the USDA is no where *near* as strict as the FDA.
The interesting thing is that the vast majority of the vaccines that work and are tried and true (unlike the flu vaccine) come from strains of viruses that do not mutate quickly or at all. I’ve long since forgotten the term. But that’s specifically why they work so well as a protective factor.
Viruses that have a high probability of mutation are vaccines that have to be repeated – not because immunity wanes in the human (for example, the reason for boosters), but because the strains have effectively changed enough that a new vaccine is required.
Ah, that’s good to know that they have changed the OPV to a killed form. That is much less worrisome.
Good to hear about your positive experience with the Varicella vaccine. I don’t know what they’re telling parents nowadays, but when we were first looking at it, they were still trying to say it would confer 100% immunity, which obviously, it doesn’t. The data on avoiding the other effects of the disease (shingles etc) was not widely available at the time. I don’t think I’d ever read it till I went looking the other night. Certainly that’s worth factoring into the decision=making process and highly worthwhile if it works. Certainly if Allegra turns up without immunity at this point, I’d go ahead and vaccinate her.
*nod* back when Kritter was immunized, the vaccine had just come out. I think the marketing material was saying 100% immunity, but our doctor was somewhat skeptical of the claim. It was he that pointed out that even if it didn’t work 100% and she ended up getting it anyway, the point was that the side effects would be lessened.
I loved that doctor – he was an awesome pediatrician. too bad I can’t move him up here from Muncie *chuckle* – then again, we have a pretty awesome pediatrician now too 🙂
(nod) I wish we were that happy with our pediatrician. We love our adult doc, but our ped. is not as good. Since we started with that office, we’ve had something like 4 regular docs, and a couple of temporary ones. The only one still there is the main doc, and it really makes me wonder…. I’ve been thinking it might be time to go looking for another one. It’s just such a painful process I’ve been avoiding it. ;^/
Point. I’d like to know this, too.
Oh, yes, a hearty second to that suggestion!
Great post, as usual, but. . . I would like to humbly offer one correction. It’s probably a typo, but it’s a common typo at that, one I myself made several times (that’s probably why I noticed it).
“Phenol, or carbonic acid, is a naturally occurring substance. . . . “
I think you might be refering to carbolic acid. Carbonic acid is what I produce in my pop machine by combining carbon dioxide and water under pressure at temperatures just above freezing. It gives pop its pop, and if it is a toxin, I am in deep trouble.
On a purely informational note, I recently asked an engineer friend of mine what exactly is liquid smoke, how is it made. He currently works building the machines that pre-cook hot dogs and sausages on an industrial scale — think Hormel’s kitchen. Turns out liquid smoke is literally smoke trapped in liquid.
Smoke from a fire of the desired wood is misted with water, trapping those phenols you mentioned — and many of the other organic compounds that give the smoke its distinctive flavor — before it flies up the flue. Meaning, if you can stand sitting about the campfire roasting smores and singing Bob Denver songs, folks, liquid smoke away! It’s the same damned thing.
Great post, as usual, but. . . I would like to humbly offer one correction. It’s probably a typo, but it’s a common typo at that, one I myself made several times (that’s probably why I noticed it).
“Phenol, or carbonic acid, is a naturally occurring substance. . . . “
I think you might be refering to carbolic acid. Carbonic acid is what I produce in my pop machine by combining carbon dioxide and water under pressure at temperatures just above freezing. It gives pop its pop, and if it is a toxin, I am in deep trouble.
On a purely informational note, I recently asked an engineer friend of mine what exactly is liquid smoke, how is it made. He currently works building the machines that pre-cook hot dogs and sausages on an industrial scale — think Hormel’s kitchen. Turns out liquid smoke is literally smoke trapped in liquid.
Smoke from a fire of the desired wood is misted with water, trapping those phenols you mentioned — and many of the other organic compounds that give the smoke its distinctive flavor — before it flies up the flue. Meaning, if you can stand sitting about the campfire roasting smores and singing Bob Denver songs, folks, liquid smoke away! It’s the same damned thing.
Credulity, autism, and vaccination information…oh, and space aliens, too.
Tacit, that was beautifully written. Unfortunately there are alot of sheeple that will believe the drivel that is put out about the “dangers” of vaccination. Some of these geniuses deny a link between HIV and AIds and better, one who posted on another site we are on in common, also believes that psychotropic drugs are dangerous for bi-polars, etc. C’est les stupides.
I’m just soooooo glad that those who know better are exposing the rest of us to risk we shouldn’t have to bear… or worse, their kids are victims of their dogma and magical thinking. But what the hell do I know? I’ve only been a nurse practitioner than some people have been alive… and while I am allergic to thimerisol and some vax components which have yet to be identfied, IF I had the choice to employ vaccines now, my travel life would be more broad or possible and I’d be better able to not have issues with boosterable diseases. Alack and alas.
Oh well, here’s to looking at the morass of true believers and wondering just what in heck got in their organic (as in containing carbon molecules) diets today… Oy. Ya gotta wonder about the ability to believe hogwash in the face of truth (denial). MC
Credulity, autism, and vaccination information…oh, and space aliens, too.
Tacit, that was beautifully written. Unfortunately there are alot of sheeple that will believe the drivel that is put out about the “dangers” of vaccination. Some of these geniuses deny a link between HIV and AIds and better, one who posted on another site we are on in common, also believes that psychotropic drugs are dangerous for bi-polars, etc. C’est les stupides.
I’m just soooooo glad that those who know better are exposing the rest of us to risk we shouldn’t have to bear… or worse, their kids are victims of their dogma and magical thinking. But what the hell do I know? I’ve only been a nurse practitioner than some people have been alive… and while I am allergic to thimerisol and some vax components which have yet to be identfied, IF I had the choice to employ vaccines now, my travel life would be more broad or possible and I’d be better able to not have issues with boosterable diseases. Alack and alas.
Oh well, here’s to looking at the morass of true believers and wondering just what in heck got in their organic (as in containing carbon molecules) diets today… Oy. Ya gotta wonder about the ability to believe hogwash in the face of truth (denial). MC
Sorry for my belated response! Wow, thank you for looking into that–really interesting stuff.
Do you have a science degree, or are you just an autodidact? I only ask because if it’s the latter, that’s very encouraging to me–I was started out my college work planning on studying molecular biology and math, and now because of certain exigencies I’m doing liberal-artsy stuff (still mathy with my areas of concentrations, but certainly not as in-depth as I would be studying for a normal b.s.). Everyone goes on about needing a degree to be able to affirm having a comprehensive knowledge of a subject…but you seem to be very scientific and well-versed and able to make very important well-reasoned decisions from a ton of data (and decide which of the data comes from more spurious sources)…but of course, if you do have a science degree, this whole statement probably doesn’t make much sense.
Sorry for rambing–hopefully you got the gist of what I said; I’m a bit sleepy! That stuff about Lysol and Listerine is very interesting and food for thought, and I forgot to consider membrane irritation being a possibility for the most salient side effect of exposure…thank you!
Thank you
This is nice, it’s especially nice that the antivaxers haven’t descended upon you en masse to scream at you about the Elders of Zion and the Illuminati and the worldwide conspiracy to protect the manufacturers of thimerosal…
Oracknows.blogspot.com has had some really great debunking on the vaccines and autism myths.
Autism Diva blog at autismdiva.blogspot.com covers this, too.
One point, only 20 -25% of autistic kids regress. The rest are basically noticably autistic from birth.
Some folks say that there’s “old autism” where the kids were autistic from birth, but the “new autism” is mostly kids who regress after vaccines… this is a total fabrication.
Thank you
This is nice, it’s especially nice that the antivaxers haven’t descended upon you en masse to scream at you about the Elders of Zion and the Illuminati and the worldwide conspiracy to protect the manufacturers of thimerosal…
Oracknows.blogspot.com has had some really great debunking on the vaccines and autism myths.
Autism Diva blog at autismdiva.blogspot.com covers this, too.
One point, only 20 -25% of autistic kids regress. The rest are basically noticably autistic from birth.
Some folks say that there’s “old autism” where the kids were autistic from birth, but the “new autism” is mostly kids who regress after vaccines… this is a total fabrication.
Nicely done, indeed. One other comment on formaldehyde: isn’t it one of the byproducts of aspartame in the body? Of course, it turns out that aspartame might not be all that good for you in other ways, but as long as it’s the most common artificial sweetner out there, you’ve got a solid case.
Nicely done, indeed. One other comment on formaldehyde: isn’t it one of the byproducts of aspartame in the body? Of course, it turns out that aspartame might not be all that good for you in other ways, but as long as it’s the most common artificial sweetner out there, you’ve got a solid case.
Uh, not really.
There is no more risk from the MMR than thimerosal for autism (the same population studies done for thimersal were done for MMR)… which is the same vaccine used in the USA since 1971 (the UK adopted it after having problems with the mumps component of their version, look the difference between Urabe versus Jeryl-Lynn (sp?) mumps vaccines).
The only reason that there is any controversy is because a gastrointerologist was paid by a lawyer to come up with specific data to support a lawsuit. You can reas up about it here:
http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm
It is to this pair you can thank for the upswing of mumps in young adults now in the UK. Thanks guys!
Something I’ve learned since reading up on vaccines: They are NOT injected into the bloodstream. They are injected into muscle.
I doubt there is any more risk than injesting orally, or by even breathing in through your nose (which is apparently a very effective way of transmitting stuff into your bloodstream).
Vaccines and Mercury
Mercury melts brain cells, some people especially infants get overdosed with mercury and yes some people cannot excrete it. If you get reliable results you will find that mercury is the preservative in most vaccines up until 3 yrs ago. The diagnosis is usually made at the age of three and now guess what guys. This month (MARCH 2006) we are seeing autism drop by 35%. I wonder what California’s rates will be in late June–probably another drop. WONDER WHY??? I guess someone somewhere could say its because we are driving hybrids or that we are eating less fish
Re: Vaccines and Mercury
Anon Anti-Vaxxer:
Which study states that there has been a 35% drop in autism rates this month? I’m really hoping you say ‘CDDS’ because its going to be fun taking you apart afterwards.
Re: Vaccines and Mercury
Thanks for providing just a taste of the ignorant, irrational, fear-mongering claims that anti-vax fools love to spout. It contrasts wonderfully with a fine piece of reporting/explanation and reasonable discussion!!!
Re: Vaccines and Mercury
What a bunch of pro vaccine bullshit propaganda. Absolutely no clinical evidence given that formaldihyde when injected into the body of an infant or toddler is safe…quote your source (medical journal, lead author, date, year)…you can’t.
Quote your source on phenols being safe in this same patient population? C’mon…I want good peer review journals, not your self indulgent mindless crap that you spew that is based on your ignorant opinion and stories about Listerine…what a joke.
What drug company do you work for asshole?
Vaccines and Mercury
Mercury melts brain cells, some people especially infants get overdosed with mercury and yes some people cannot excrete it. If you get reliable results you will find that mercury is the preservative in most vaccines up until 3 yrs ago. The diagnosis is usually made at the age of three and now guess what guys. This month (MARCH 2006) we are seeing autism drop by 35%. I wonder what California’s rates will be in late June–probably another drop. WONDER WHY??? I guess someone somewhere could say its because we are driving hybrids or that we are eating less fish
Re: Vaccines and Mercury
Anon Anti-Vaxxer:
Which study states that there has been a 35% drop in autism rates this month? I’m really hoping you say ‘CDDS’ because its going to be fun taking you apart afterwards.
Re: Vaccines and Mercury
Thanks for providing just a taste of the ignorant, irrational, fear-mongering claims that anti-vax fools love to spout. It contrasts wonderfully with a fine piece of reporting/explanation and reasonable discussion!!!
That looks really cool and fun. Did anyone make a video of it? I’d like to see it in action.
That looks really cool and fun. Did anyone make a video of it? I’d like to see it in action.
doing a little time traveling
I did this profoundly satisfying paper on anti-immunology recently. Apparently, along the same logical lines as anti-vaccination folks (“sickness is natural and your body will cure itself, none of this chemical shit. Ah caint pronounce them thangs, so they must be bad for me”), this guy Behe claims that God must exist because, drum roll please…
The immune system is too complicated to have arisen through evolution. Basically, since he can’t pass BIOS 25601, God must exist. Personally, I think it’d be easier just to put humans in a giant plastic bubble with no antigens instead of spending the 8th day coming up with VDJ recombination and TLRs and many, many other things only described by acronyms within acronyms within acronyms.
So, just tell them they can go back to the old days when measles, mumps, polio, and whooping cough were “just part of growing up” instead of the almost unheard of diseases they are today in vaccinated countries.
They can go hang out with the yellow-toothed anti-fluorine people and the flat-earthers who think round-the-world tours are a scam.
doing a little time traveling
I did this profoundly satisfying paper on anti-immunology recently. Apparently, along the same logical lines as anti-vaccination folks (“sickness is natural and your body will cure itself, none of this chemical shit. Ah caint pronounce them thangs, so they must be bad for me”), this guy Behe claims that God must exist because, drum roll please…
The immune system is too complicated to have arisen through evolution. Basically, since he can’t pass BIOS 25601, God must exist. Personally, I think it’d be easier just to put humans in a giant plastic bubble with no antigens instead of spending the 8th day coming up with VDJ recombination and TLRs and many, many other things only described by acronyms within acronyms within acronyms.
So, just tell them they can go back to the old days when measles, mumps, polio, and whooping cough were “just part of growing up” instead of the almost unheard of diseases they are today in vaccinated countries.
They can go hang out with the yellow-toothed anti-fluorine people and the flat-earthers who think round-the-world tours are a scam.
LOL! That’s great. It reads just like it should!
Hope you feel better soon!
LOL! That’s great. It reads just like it should!
Hope you feel better soon!
GORGEOUS. That’s beautiful bondage, her skin, the color of the rope, and the way it’s tied. I’m especially appreciative that she’s tied to restrict movement, but the ropes aren’t cutting into her skin – I’ve seen a lot of ‘extreme porn’ lately where the models look like the rope is causing them pain and constricting blood flow.
More please? And btw – where do you get your rope?
GORGEOUS. That’s beautiful bondage, her skin, the color of the rope, and the way it’s tied. I’m especially appreciative that she’s tied to restrict movement, but the ropes aren’t cutting into her skin – I’ve seen a lot of ‘extreme porn’ lately where the models look like the rope is causing them pain and constricting blood flow.
More please? And btw – where do you get your rope?
Re: Stun gun? GOOD.
OM>You do not need to identify yourself to a police officer or any government minister in the United States of America. A police officer cannot compel you to identify yourself, his doing so is stepping beyond his granted authority from any state and federal constitution.
These were not police. They were campus Rent-a-cops. They were “duly authorized” by the campus, apart from any “state” or “federal constitution”. It WAS their job to ask for ID, and it was the students JOB to present it. I don’t care HOW persecuted you feel, or what RIGHTS you signed away, when they ask for it, you SHOW it, and none of your lip.
OM> Show me where in any constitution and/or show me the state or federal statute that authorizes a police officer to compel a stranger to identify himself — furthermore, show me the constitutional provision or the statute that abridges the right to freedom of speech (which includes the right to be silent).
What I will show you are standard campus admission papers where that student (and other students) sign their “state or federal constitution” rights away in favor of a disciplined and ordered atmosphere. If a student signs such a paper, he is legally obligated to follow the rules which he said he would follow. If the papers he signed said, “You will present or surrender your student ID when a duly authorized official requests it”, then, by GOD you give it them and you SMILE.
None of your immature, childish, “I want my mommy” and “I want my rights” bullshit. This ain’t your momma. We’re not gonna coddle you. We’re gonna spank you, like your mom and dad should have. Perhaps if Middle Eastern culture wasn’t so misogynistic, and pro-SON, this asshole wouldn’t have been so damn spoiled, and he wouldn’t have mouthed off to the cops. Instead, he’s doing the martyr complex, like so many of them do. Well, I have no sympathy for your, “I defied the cops, why am I getting shocked?” bullshit, and I have no sympathy for any of those HOMIcide bombers in the middle east.
Re: Stun gun? GOOD.
OM>You do not need to identify yourself to a police officer or any government minister in the United States of America. A police officer cannot compel you to identify yourself, his doing so is stepping beyond his granted authority from any state and federal constitution.
These were not police. They were campus Rent-a-cops. They were “duly authorized” by the campus, apart from any “state” or “federal constitution”. It WAS their job to ask for ID, and it was the students JOB to present it. I don’t care HOW persecuted you feel, or what RIGHTS you signed away, when they ask for it, you SHOW it, and none of your lip.
OM> Show me where in any constitution and/or show me the state or federal statute that authorizes a police officer to compel a stranger to identify himself — furthermore, show me the constitutional provision or the statute that abridges the right to freedom of speech (which includes the right to be silent).
What I will show you are standard campus admission papers where that student (and other students) sign their “state or federal constitution” rights away in favor of a disciplined and ordered atmosphere. If a student signs such a paper, he is legally obligated to follow the rules which he said he would follow. If the papers he signed said, “You will present or surrender your student ID when a duly authorized official requests it”, then, by GOD you give it them and you SMILE.
None of your immature, childish, “I want my mommy” and “I want my rights” bullshit. This ain’t your momma. We’re not gonna coddle you. We’re gonna spank you, like your mom and dad should have. Perhaps if Middle Eastern culture wasn’t so misogynistic, and pro-SON, this asshole wouldn’t have been so damn spoiled, and he wouldn’t have mouthed off to the cops. Instead, he’s doing the martyr complex, like so many of them do. Well, I have no sympathy for your, “I defied the cops, why am I getting shocked?” bullshit, and I have no sympathy for any of those HOMIcide bombers in the middle east.
It’s difficult to say whether or not Islam is more repressive than other religious systems, in part because there is no one single doctrine or set of ideals that comprises Islam, any more than there is a single doctrine or set of ideals that comprises Christianity. A Catholic, a Unitarian, and a member of the Assemblies of God may all be nominally Christian, and a Middle Eastern Muslim may see all three as being cut from the same cloth (as we see a Wahabbist, a Sufi, and a Shi’ite as being cut from the same cloth, and generally lump them all together when we think of “Muslims), but the beliefs and doctrines they subscribe to are radically different.
If one were to look at the doctrine of Christian Dominionism (which holds that, among other things, America was intended by the founding fathers to be a Christian nation; the government and legal systems of the United States should be dismantled and re-formed as a theocracy; and in some extreme cases even believe that God’s goal for the United States is to spread conservative Christian Fundamentalism throughout the world, one could reasonably make many of the same arguments that people make against Islam–it is a violent faith, it is bent on eradicating personal liberty and replacing it with a global theocracy, and so forth. (I find some irony in the fact that many of the people who argue most strongly that Islam is inherently repressive would like to see the world’s governments replaced with an equally repressive system, only one geared to their own particular faith.)
There are, I think, many examples of Islamic systems that are not inherently repressive. The Ahmadiyya sect of Islam in India stands as one example. The fact that the dominant Islamic societies in the Middle East we see today is as much a consequence of political corruption, Western foreign politics, and plain old-fashioned greed as it is the consequence of any inherent repressiveness in Islam itself; Wahabbist Islam, arguably one of hte most virulent and anti-Western strains of Islam (Osama bin Laden is a Wahabbist) is promoted and financed by the nominally secular government of American ally Saudi Arabia as a way for the Saudi royalty to keep the backing of powerful right-wing Muslims and distract attention from corruption and economic impoverishment.
I’ve also encountered a few non-Christians who are rabid supporters of the War on Terrorism. And in all seriousness, one of the most rabid of those people I’ve encountered also believes that Joseph McCarthy was right.
It’s difficult to say whether or not Islam is more repressive than other religious systems, in part because there is no one single doctrine or set of ideals that comprises Islam, any more than there is a single doctrine or set of ideals that comprises Christianity. A Catholic, a Unitarian, and a member of the Assemblies of God may all be nominally Christian, and a Middle Eastern Muslim may see all three as being cut from the same cloth (as we see a Wahabbist, a Sufi, and a Shi’ite as being cut from the same cloth, and generally lump them all together when we think of “Muslims), but the beliefs and doctrines they subscribe to are radically different.
If one were to look at the doctrine of Christian Dominionism (which holds that, among other things, America was intended by the founding fathers to be a Christian nation; the government and legal systems of the United States should be dismantled and re-formed as a theocracy; and in some extreme cases even believe that God’s goal for the United States is to spread conservative Christian Fundamentalism throughout the world, one could reasonably make many of the same arguments that people make against Islam–it is a violent faith, it is bent on eradicating personal liberty and replacing it with a global theocracy, and so forth. (I find some irony in the fact that many of the people who argue most strongly that Islam is inherently repressive would like to see the world’s governments replaced with an equally repressive system, only one geared to their own particular faith.)
There are, I think, many examples of Islamic systems that are not inherently repressive. The Ahmadiyya sect of Islam in India stands as one example. The fact that the dominant Islamic societies in the Middle East we see today is as much a consequence of political corruption, Western foreign politics, and plain old-fashioned greed as it is the consequence of any inherent repressiveness in Islam itself; Wahabbist Islam, arguably one of hte most virulent and anti-Western strains of Islam (Osama bin Laden is a Wahabbist) is promoted and financed by the nominally secular government of American ally Saudi Arabia as a way for the Saudi royalty to keep the backing of powerful right-wing Muslims and distract attention from corruption and economic impoverishment.
I’ve also encountered a few non-Christians who are rabid supporters of the War on Terrorism. And in all seriousness, one of the most rabid of those people I’ve encountered also believes that Joseph McCarthy was right.
Bah, that’s every room in the house, for our cats.
The only distinction is what task we are supposed to be performing for them at the same time, ie, feeding them in the kitchen, turning on the water for them in the bathroom, etc.
They deign to share THEIR house with US…generously letting us pay the rent & utilities and maintain the food stores.
Bah, that’s every room in the house, for our cats.
The only distinction is what task we are supposed to be performing for them at the same time, ie, feeding them in the kitchen, turning on the water for them in the bathroom, etc.
They deign to share THEIR house with US…generously letting us pay the rent & utilities and maintain the food stores.
preaching to the survivors here man.
preaching to the survivors here man.
*snicker*
(BTW, is today your birthday, or are you one of the people that lists a different one on LJ for identity-protection? If it is, happy birthday,! Of not… have a good weekend anyway!)
*snicker*
(BTW, is today your birthday, or are you one of the people that lists a different one on LJ for identity-protection? If it is, happy birthday,! Of not… have a good weekend anyway!)
I’m curious: What is LJ spam? Do they post on comments and then delete, just to send the spam to your listed mailbox?
I’m of the opinion that spam will only slow down when bodies start popping up in alleys and rivers, all with “SPAMMER” fire-branded on their foreheads. To avoid too much liability, I suppose the branding could start before the killing.
I’m curious: What is LJ spam? Do they post on comments and then delete, just to send the spam to your listed mailbox?
I’m of the opinion that spam will only slow down when bodies start popping up in alleys and rivers, all with “SPAMMER” fire-branded on their foreheads. To avoid too much liability, I suppose the branding could start before the killing.
Sounds like the scaled-windows thing was borrowed from Expose, which offers the same functionality on Mac OS X.
Expose is actually pretty damn slick. At first, when it was introduced, I thought it was yet more gee-whiz GUI fluff, but I’ve found that I use it more or less constantly now. t a keystroke (or mouse click, if you have a 3-button mouse), you can scale all the open windows, hilight all the open windows belonging to one application and dim all other windows, or cause all the windows to scoot off the screen and reveal the desktop. It’s such a huge labor-saver, especially if your work habits are like mine and you have half a dozen applications and a dozen or more windows open at any given time, that I can’t imagine life without it.
Sounds like the scaled-windows thing was borrowed from Expose, which offers the same functionality on Mac OS X.
Expose is actually pretty damn slick. At first, when it was introduced, I thought it was yet more gee-whiz GUI fluff, but I’ve found that I use it more or less constantly now. t a keystroke (or mouse click, if you have a 3-button mouse), you can scale all the open windows, hilight all the open windows belonging to one application and dim all other windows, or cause all the windows to scoot off the screen and reveal the desktop. It’s such a huge labor-saver, especially if your work habits are like mine and you have half a dozen applications and a dozen or more windows open at any given time, that I can’t imagine life without it.
Hey that looks familiar. 🙂
Hey that looks familiar. 🙂
my mistake. what i actually meant was you have no soul in your body.
my mistake. what i actually meant was you have no soul in your body.
Again, thanks. I think I could do that from memory.
(Sort of spoils the effect when you have to flip through your notes, don’t you think?)
Again, thanks. I think I could do that from memory.
(Sort of spoils the effect when you have to flip through your notes, don’t you think?)
Re: Technical Question..
Greetings. I just stumbled onto this tread and wanted to place a comment. I have been doing this for a few years now and I for one love to use a 100′ rope. I know it sounds like a lot of extra but I do trend to get creative with the extra other than just the harness. I tend to place a “HAPPY” knot in the crotch so that it rubs when the rope is tugged or just walked around in. One of the things I do with some of the extra is to make a loop in the back and wrap a handle around it. Again just some thing to grab onto and cause some movement of the crotch rope.
Have fun all
Re: Technical Question..
Greetings. I just stumbled onto this tread and wanted to place a comment. I have been doing this for a few years now and I for one love to use a 100′ rope. I know it sounds like a lot of extra but I do trend to get creative with the extra other than just the harness. I tend to place a “HAPPY” knot in the crotch so that it rubs when the rope is tugged or just walked around in. One of the things I do with some of the extra is to make a loop in the back and wrap a handle around it. Again just some thing to grab onto and cause some movement of the crotch rope.
Have fun all
Cat in box. Soooo cuuuute!!!!
Cat in box. Soooo cuuuute!!!!
Oh my goodness. So cute!
Yay Molly!
Oh my goodness. So cute!
Yay Molly!
Yeah, Molly’s the more social of the two; she just absolutely loves attention. Snow Crash, not so much.
Molly loves this box so much, though, that she actually quit sleeping in the bed with me, preferring the box over the bed.
Yeah, Molly’s the more social of the two; she just absolutely loves attention. Snow Crash, not so much.
Molly loves this box so much, though, that she actually quit sleeping in the bed with me, preferring the box over the bed.
I have the most interesting complex about this. I’ve known you as “Franklin” for years now, and you’re my sweetie so I’ve always thought of you as “Franklin”, but then I got into this whole online thing where all your usernames are “Tacit”. What ended up happening is, depending upon the context in which your name comes up, the two names switch around both in my speech and in my head automatically. The correctly-associated name pops up all by itself and I don’t even notice it until someone points it out to me.
I have the most interesting complex about this. I’ve known you as “Franklin” for years now, and you’re my sweetie so I’ve always thought of you as “Franklin”, but then I got into this whole online thing where all your usernames are “Tacit”. What ended up happening is, depending upon the context in which your name comes up, the two names switch around both in my speech and in my head automatically. The correctly-associated name pops up all by itself and I don’t even notice it until someone points it out to me.
(aside: I wish you’d lj-cut these long posts; when I’m scanning my friends page I don’t spend the time your writings deserve, in order to be read and comprehended and grok’d)
The insignificance of man was neatly summed up by Douglas Adams in “The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe”, talking about the Total Perspective Vortex…
The Universe, as has been observed before, is an unsettlingly big place, a fact which for the sake of a quiet life most people tend to ignore.
Many would happily move to somewhere rather smaller of their own devising, and this is what most beings in fact do.
For instance, in one corner of the Eastern Galactic Arm lies the large forest planet Oglaroon, the entire “intelligent” population of which lives permanently in one fairly small and crowded nut tree. In which tree they are born, live, fall in love, carve tiny speculative articles in the bark on the meaning of life, the futility of death and the importance of birth control, fight a few extremely minor wars, and eventually die strapped to the underside of some of the less accessible outer branches.
In fact the only Oglaroonians who ever leave their tree are those who are hurled out of it for the heinous crime of wondering whether any of the other trees might be capable of supporting life at all, or indeed whether the other trees are anything other than illusions brought on by eating too many Oglanuts.
Exotic though this behaviour may seem, there is no life form in the Galaxy which is not in some way guilty of the same thing, which is why the Total Perspective Vortex is as horrific as it is.
For when you are put into the Vortex you are given just one momentary glimpse of the entire unimaginable infinity of creation, and somewhere in it a tiny little marker, a microscopic dot on a microscopic dot, which says “You are here.”
(aside: I wish you’d lj-cut these long posts; when I’m scanning my friends page I don’t spend the time your writings deserve, in order to be read and comprehended and grok’d)
The insignificance of man was neatly summed up by Douglas Adams in “The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe”, talking about the Total Perspective Vortex…
The Universe, as has been observed before, is an unsettlingly big place, a fact which for the sake of a quiet life most people tend to ignore.
Many would happily move to somewhere rather smaller of their own devising, and this is what most beings in fact do.
For instance, in one corner of the Eastern Galactic Arm lies the large forest planet Oglaroon, the entire “intelligent” population of which lives permanently in one fairly small and crowded nut tree. In which tree they are born, live, fall in love, carve tiny speculative articles in the bark on the meaning of life, the futility of death and the importance of birth control, fight a few extremely minor wars, and eventually die strapped to the underside of some of the less accessible outer branches.
In fact the only Oglaroonians who ever leave their tree are those who are hurled out of it for the heinous crime of wondering whether any of the other trees might be capable of supporting life at all, or indeed whether the other trees are anything other than illusions brought on by eating too many Oglanuts.
Exotic though this behaviour may seem, there is no life form in the Galaxy which is not in some way guilty of the same thing, which is why the Total Perspective Vortex is as horrific as it is.
For when you are put into the Vortex you are given just one momentary glimpse of the entire unimaginable infinity of creation, and somewhere in it a tiny little marker, a microscopic dot on a microscopic dot, which says “You are here.”
twins don’t just have genes in common!
And how big is the chance that they only vaccinate ONE of the twins? If they didn’t do that than your case falls apart.
It’s basically like the “cancer is 80% (I don’t remember the given number) genetic” from Identical twin studies. The problem is that identical twins usually have very similar lives, chose often similar wives!, jobs, places to live, eat similar foods etc. Finding identical twins that were separated very early is the hard part to get for making this kind of study be able to mean something. Often even one that have been separated have made choices which exposed them to the same environmental factors.
The typical twin study estimates heritability by comparing pairs of identical twins with pairs of fraternal twins. Both twin types share common environment while growing up, but the identical twins share all their genes, whereas the fraternal twins share only half. The heritablility can be assessed, in this case, by comparing the concordance in disease status within pairs of the two types of twins. As you point out, there are still some differences in the way parents treat identical twins vs. fraternal twins, but that difference will be small compared to the similarity due to sharing a household. Thus, you don’t need twins separated at birth, and most twin studies don’t use them; although that is another way to achieve the same goal.
The typical twin study estimates heritability by comparing pairs of identical twins with pairs of fraternal twins. Both twin types share common environment while growing up, but the identical twins share all their genes, whereas the fraternal twins share only half. The heritablility can be assessed, in this case, by comparing the concordance in disease status within pairs of the two types of twins. As you point out, there are still some differences in the way parents treat identical twins vs. fraternal twins, but that difference will be small compared to the similarity due to sharing a household. Thus, you don’t need twins separated at birth, and most twin studies don’t use them; although that is another way to achieve the same goal.
This is just lovely. I totally agree. Would you mind if I liked this in my journal? I want to show my friends. 🙂
This is just lovely. I totally agree. Would you mind if I liked this in my journal? I want to show my friends. 🙂
Hi! Got a link here from a friend. I am really impressed by the eloquence of this essay. It’s pretty much exactly how I see things as well. Though I consider myself to be one of those people who just fundamentally lacks the ability to believe in God, I still have gone through a long road of deciding exactly what that meant for my life. (I was raised Roman Catholic but around 13, I realized that the only reason I went to church was because I liked helping people by volunteering and that I did so well in CCD because it was school and I’m good at school. Happily my parents were supportive of me. I still think that one of the things that made me lose all pretense of faith was when ‘Father Mike’ told my CCD clas that hell was an ice-cream shop where the spoons were too big to use and no one would help you. Yeah. I know I was a fairly young at the time…but that’s no excuse for telling someone such stupidity. As I still remember it to this day…I do truly believe that had something with my coming to realize I didn’t believe any of the stories I was being told.
Hope you don’t mind if I add you to my f-list.
Hi! Got a link here from a friend. I am really impressed by the eloquence of this essay. It’s pretty much exactly how I see things as well. Though I consider myself to be one of those people who just fundamentally lacks the ability to believe in God, I still have gone through a long road of deciding exactly what that meant for my life. (I was raised Roman Catholic but around 13, I realized that the only reason I went to church was because I liked helping people by volunteering and that I did so well in CCD because it was school and I’m good at school. Happily my parents were supportive of me. I still think that one of the things that made me lose all pretense of faith was when ‘Father Mike’ told my CCD clas that hell was an ice-cream shop where the spoons were too big to use and no one would help you. Yeah. I know I was a fairly young at the time…but that’s no excuse for telling someone such stupidity. As I still remember it to this day…I do truly believe that had something with my coming to realize I didn’t believe any of the stories I was being told.
Hope you don’t mind if I add you to my f-list.
Re: well I could…
and hide the remote.
Re: well I could…
and hide the remote.
Hello to nothing and no one.
Such is a prayer in the case of atheism. But I do it anyway.
I am not a good atheist. I know that the universe is incomprehensibly huge, and varied. I know exactly where gods came from, why they were created, and what purpose they serve to the individuals who look to them for guidance and whatall else.
But I still think well of my personaly contrived gods. I still work within certain peramiters and I still aknowledge their supiriority to myself. They are after all my own ideals. But they are mine, and mine alone. So I can do as I wish with them. I personaly do not believe in Devine right, more like devine obligation. But you would have to read between the lines to get what those are.
Thank you for sharing this perspective of yours. It is good to know there is reason by way of inspiration out there. Keep going.
Hello to nothing and no one.
Such is a prayer in the case of atheism. But I do it anyway.
I am not a good atheist. I know that the universe is incomprehensibly huge, and varied. I know exactly where gods came from, why they were created, and what purpose they serve to the individuals who look to them for guidance and whatall else.
But I still think well of my personaly contrived gods. I still work within certain peramiters and I still aknowledge their supiriority to myself. They are after all my own ideals. But they are mine, and mine alone. So I can do as I wish with them. I personaly do not believe in Devine right, more like devine obligation. But you would have to read between the lines to get what those are.
Thank you for sharing this perspective of yours. It is good to know there is reason by way of inspiration out there. Keep going.
Sadly, I will never set foot in Wal-Mart. Scares and angers me more than the worms did the small town.
Sadly, I will never set foot in Wal-Mart. Scares and angers me more than the worms did the small town.
Re: Vaccines and Mercury
What a bunch of pro vaccine bullshit propaganda. Absolutely no clinical evidence given that formaldihyde when injected into the body of an infant or toddler is safe…quote your source (medical journal, lead author, date, year)…you can’t.
Quote your source on phenols being safe in this same patient population? C’mon…I want good peer review journals, not your self indulgent mindless crap that you spew that is based on your ignorant opinion and stories about Listerine…what a joke.
What drug company do you work for asshole?
What a bunch of pro vaccine bullshit propaganda. Absolutely no clinical evidence given that formaldehyde when injected into the body of an infant or toddler is safe…quote your source (medical journal, lead author, date, year)…you can’t.
Quote your source on phenols being safe in this same patient population? C’mon…I want good medical (peer review) journals, not your self indulgent mindless crap that you spew that is based on your ignorant opinions and stories about Listerine and backyard barbeques…what a joke.
What drug company do you work for asshole?
What a bunch of pro vaccine bullshit propaganda. Absolutely no clinical evidence given that formaldehyde when injected into the body of an infant or toddler is safe…quote your source (medical journal, lead author, date, year)…you can’t.
Quote your source on phenols being safe in this same patient population? C’mon…I want good medical (peer review) journals, not your self indulgent mindless crap that you spew that is based on your ignorant opinions and stories about Listerine and backyard barbeques…what a joke.
What drug company do you work for asshole?
THIS ARTICLE IS BASED ON BULLSHIT
What a bunch of pro vaccine bullshit propaganda. Absolutely no clinical evidence given that formaldehyde when injected into the body of an infant or toddler is safe…quote your source (medical journal, lead author, date, year)…you can’t.
Quote your source on phenols being safe in this same patient population? C’mon…I want good medical (peer review) journals, not your self indulgent mindless crap that you spew that is based on your ignorant opinions and stories about Listerine and backyard barbeques…what a joke.
What drug company do you work for asshole?
THIS ARTICLE IS BASED ON BULLSHIT
What a bunch of pro vaccine bullshit propaganda. Absolutely no clinical evidence given that formaldehyde when injected into the body of an infant or toddler is safe…quote your source (medical journal, lead author, date, year)…you can’t.
Quote your source on phenols being safe in this same patient population? C’mon…I want good medical (peer review) journals, not your self indulgent mindless crap that you spew that is based on your ignorant opinions and stories about Listerine and backyard barbeques…what a joke.
What drug company do you work for asshole?
I think your trolling missed the mark, dude.
I have a question: The present year in the modern Jewish calendar is 5767. Assuming the Jewish lunar-solar year is on average the same as in the Gregorian calendar, and that the calendar was “started” at Creation as per Genesis, that would make the Earth some 240 years younger than Archbishop Ussher’s calculations would imply. Does the age of 5997 years you quoted above reflect a different calculation by Orthodox Jews?
Good question. The figure I used came from an article about Christian and Jewish Creationism in Skeptic magazine, though it’s not impossible I’m misquoting the number. I do know that belief in a young (~6,000 year old) universe is one of the central tenets of Orthodox Judaism, and one of the key elements differentiating it from Reform Judaism, though whether there’s universal agreement on the age, I have no idea.
I have a question: The present year in the modern Jewish calendar is 5767. Assuming the Jewish lunar-solar year is on average the same as in the Gregorian calendar, and that the calendar was “started” at Creation as per Genesis, that would make the Earth some 240 years younger than Archbishop Ussher’s calculations would imply. Does the age of 5997 years you quoted above reflect a different calculation by Orthodox Jews?
Good question. The figure I used came from an article about Christian and Jewish Creationism in Skeptic magazine, though it’s not impossible I’m misquoting the number. I do know that belief in a young (~6,000 year old) universe is one of the central tenets of Orthodox Judaism, and one of the key elements differentiating it from Reform Judaism, though whether there’s universal agreement on the age, I have no idea.
Greetings!
I’ve just added you as a friend, and wanted to introduce myself. I found you through LJNetworks’ showing you as a person whom EdwardDain and Grail76 had in common whom I had not yet discovered. I read through your public entries and enjoyed them thoroughly – wanted any new ones to show up on my Friends page. I see we have a number of common friends and interests, and hope to get to know you better.
Looking forward to exploring your NSFW cuts after the kids get out of here.
Greetings!
I’ve just added you as a friend, and wanted to introduce myself. I found you through LJNetworks’ showing you as a person whom EdwardDain and Grail76 had in common whom I had not yet discovered. I read through your public entries and enjoyed them thoroughly – wanted any new ones to show up on my Friends page. I see we have a number of common friends and interests, and hope to get to know you better.
Looking forward to exploring your NSFW cuts after the kids get out of here.
Re: Thought provoking…
I think to large extent the cost and risk involved in reaching out to someone is highly variable, nd depends on the person. I also think it may have a great deal to do with whether one is an extrovert or an introvert; for an introvert, reaching out to another person is often quite difficult under any circumstances, whereas for an extrovert, it’s quite a bit easier.
Even for someone who’s highly extroverted, though, I don’t think there’s zero opportunity cost involved in reaching out to someone. There’s always a risk of rejection, and while some people handle rejection much better than others (and therefore the cost of rejection is lower), even the most stable and extroverted person will probably be hurt by repeated rejection.
The cost involved in defecting, though, goes beyond the kind of pain involved in rejection. Defecting puts a polyamorous relationship in a precarious position; when a person’s partners can not get along with one another, that tends to mean the relationship can not be inclusive, which means that the relationship becomes more limited for everyone. In a resource-competition model of polyamory, where time spent with one person means that that time can not be spent with the other, it’s been my observation that everyone tends to lose. Some people seem to be okay with that, and to prefer relationships where they spend time with their partner in isolation from their partner’s other partner, but regardless of whether that relationship model is acceptable to the people involved, I believe it still involves loss.
Re: Thought provoking…
I think to large extent the cost and risk involved in reaching out to someone is highly variable, nd depends on the person. I also think it may have a great deal to do with whether one is an extrovert or an introvert; for an introvert, reaching out to another person is often quite difficult under any circumstances, whereas for an extrovert, it’s quite a bit easier.
Even for someone who’s highly extroverted, though, I don’t think there’s zero opportunity cost involved in reaching out to someone. There’s always a risk of rejection, and while some people handle rejection much better than others (and therefore the cost of rejection is lower), even the most stable and extroverted person will probably be hurt by repeated rejection.
The cost involved in defecting, though, goes beyond the kind of pain involved in rejection. Defecting puts a polyamorous relationship in a precarious position; when a person’s partners can not get along with one another, that tends to mean the relationship can not be inclusive, which means that the relationship becomes more limited for everyone. In a resource-competition model of polyamory, where time spent with one person means that that time can not be spent with the other, it’s been my observation that everyone tends to lose. Some people seem to be okay with that, and to prefer relationships where they spend time with their partner in isolation from their partner’s other partner, but regardless of whether that relationship model is acceptable to the people involved, I believe it still involves loss.
Re: Exactly!
*blink* *blink*
Well, that explains it, then. Why was I not informed that squirrels need to be cooked?
Re: Exactly!
*blink* *blink*
Well, that explains it, then. Why was I not informed that squirrels need to be cooked?
Would you object to my using a copy of your article, “Guide to Dating a Couple” http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolydatingcouple.html for a non-profit workshop I’m facilitating on bisexuality and poly?
Thanks!
Kiki
Would you object to my using a copy of your article, “Guide to Dating a Couple” http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolydatingcouple.html for a non-profit workshop I’m facilitating on bisexuality and poly?
Thanks!
Kiki
Okay, good point. Though I could argue a technicality and say it doesn’t count, because it removes a normal function rather than adding a new one…
Okay, good point. Though I could argue a technicality and say it doesn’t count, because it removes a normal function rather than adding a new one…
vacuum pumps
[u]Hi nice site! Visit and my place: [/u]
[url=http://terri.php0h.com/page=251.html]electron beam[/url]
vacuum pumps
[u]Hi nice site! Visit and my place: [/u]
[url=http://terri.php0h.com/page=251.html]electron beam[/url]
I have fallen in love with your how-to series. Mind if I add you?
I have fallen in love with your how-to series. Mind if I add you?
Not at all; welcome aboard!
These how-to posts are actually part of a large set of tutorials I’m working on for another Web site, http://www.symtoys.com. When I’m finished, SymToys will have a radically different look and feel, and a huge number of tutorials and how-tos like these.
Not at all; welcome aboard!
These how-to posts are actually part of a large set of tutorials I’m working on for another Web site, http://www.symtoys.com. When I’m finished, SymToys will have a radically different look and feel, and a huge number of tutorials and how-tos like these.
There’s a connection between unhappiness and evil. It’s not positive, happy people with plenty to live for who strap bombs to themselves or fly airplanes into buildings. There’s a lesson in there somewhere, which I’m too sleepy to dig out at the moment.
I’ve said that for a long time. I have always felt a bit sorry for the suicide bombers of the world. To my mind they are fundamentally unhappy with their lives to believe that doing that will make things better. Happy people believe that the diety of their choice is loving and wants good things for them – not body counts.
There’s a connection between unhappiness and evil. It’s not positive, happy people with plenty to live for who strap bombs to themselves or fly airplanes into buildings. There’s a lesson in there somewhere, which I’m too sleepy to dig out at the moment.
I’ve said that for a long time. I have always felt a bit sorry for the suicide bombers of the world. To my mind they are fundamentally unhappy with their lives to believe that doing that will make things better. Happy people believe that the diety of their choice is loving and wants good things for them – not body counts.
LOL
LOL
ROFL!
Glad I finished my drink before reading this entry.
ROFL!
Glad I finished my drink before reading this entry.
I’ll be in chicago the weekend of the 13th; I’m arriving Thursday and flying back out the following Tuesday. Sound doable?
I’ll be in chicago the weekend of the 13th; I’m arriving Thursday and flying back out the following Tuesday. Sound doable?
Wow. No, I hadn’t noticed that “cock” and “anal” are the same in T9. Wow. I wonder how many nightsthat’s ruined, or at least made more surprising…
Wow. No, I hadn’t noticed that “cock” and “anal” are the same in T9. Wow. I wonder how many nightsthat’s ruined, or at least made more surprising…
Corset =
Spiderweb with an edible prize inside. *grinz*
wrapping, unwrapping, hell. It’s all fun!
Corset =
Spiderweb with an edible prize inside. *grinz*
wrapping, unwrapping, hell. It’s all fun!
Really interesting article, which I appreciated seeing. I was able to comment 🙂
Really interesting article, which I appreciated seeing. I was able to comment 🙂
The two are not necessarily exclusive. Kim Jong Il is genuinely batshit crazy, but that doesn’t mean he’s not also calculating, and capable of turning “batshit crazy” to his advantage.
A year or two ago, it was discovered that North Korea had kidnapped several South Korean movie stars, directors, and cameramen, and forced them to work for several years making propaganda films for the government. That’s James-Bond-villain-level crazy there, but it’s also effective crazy. In other words, just because they ACT crazy doesn’t necessarily mean they AREN’T crazy…
The two are not necessarily exclusive. Kim Jong Il is genuinely batshit crazy, but that doesn’t mean he’s not also calculating, and capable of turning “batshit crazy” to his advantage.
A year or two ago, it was discovered that North Korea had kidnapped several South Korean movie stars, directors, and cameramen, and forced them to work for several years making propaganda films for the government. That’s James-Bond-villain-level crazy there, but it’s also effective crazy. In other words, just because they ACT crazy doesn’t necessarily mean they AREN’T crazy…
Allegra
Allegra blog
Pharma shop
Allegra
Allegra blog
Pharma shop
so, having never seen that toy until I helped you proofread for symtoys … what makes it the coolest toy ever?
so, having never seen that toy until I helped you proofread for symtoys … what makes it the coolest toy ever?
Very cool.
Oh, BTW, looks like you and Datanode have some competition:
http://funkyirishjew.livejournal.com/172600.html
Very cool.
Oh, BTW, looks like you and Datanode have some competition:
http://funkyirishjew.livejournal.com/172600.html
Right, right. (Ha, I try to be a realist 😀 )
Temporary lifting of the rules, I guess is how to describe it. Later on, the “other woman” accused me of making her sleep with my husband, and…. anyway, maybe asking if the behavior was ethical or not is one step too far, because assigning accountability/ is interesting enough in this situation.
Right, right. (Ha, I try to be a realist 😀 )
Temporary lifting of the rules, I guess is how to describe it. Later on, the “other woman” accused me of making her sleep with my husband, and…. anyway, maybe asking if the behavior was ethical or not is one step too far, because assigning accountability/ is interesting enough in this situation.
Perfect!
This is excellent!
Perfect!
This is excellent!
“On the autism front, there is a slight risk from the combined measles vaccine (called MMR in Britain) if you have a certain protein or genetic marker already that can cause an adverse reaction.” Can you provide a source for this statement? Because I’ve trawled through the literature, journals etc. and cannot find any published study that proves any link at all in any circumstances.
Found this via Google. Some nitpicks:
The immune system responds just as if they were live, and eventually produces antibodies. The presence of these antibodies can be tested.
No, vaccines work by inducing the immune system into producing memory cells. With the memory cells in place, the next time the immune system encounters the same germ, it only takes several hours to ramp up anti-body production, as opposed to several days without the memory cells. Testing for anti-bodies is merely an indirect method of determining if the immune system responded to the vaccination.
Vaccines are not responsible for a drop in illness. It was already dropping when vaccines were introduced.
The mortality rates of diseases for which vaccines were developed were dropping before those vaccines were introduced, but the infection rates weren’t dropping. For example, the introduction of irons lungs helped reduce the mortality rate for polio, but the number of people infected per year was bouncing up and down with no sign of it petering out, and polio was still paralyzing as many people even if it was killing less of them; with the introduction of vaccines it steadily declined. Another example is measles: the mortality rate for measles had significantly dropped before the introduction of the vaccines. However, the mortality rate was still 1 in 1,000 at the time its vaccine was introduced, and it’s still at 1 in 1,000, so we’d reached the point where we’d already done all we could to reduce mortality and the only way to progress further was to avoid getting measles in the first place.
Found this via Google. Some nitpicks:
The immune system responds just as if they were live, and eventually produces antibodies. The presence of these antibodies can be tested.
No, vaccines work by inducing the immune system into producing memory cells. With the memory cells in place, the next time the immune system encounters the same germ, it only takes several hours to ramp up anti-body production, as opposed to several days without the memory cells. Testing for anti-bodies is merely an indirect method of determining if the immune system responded to the vaccination.
Vaccines are not responsible for a drop in illness. It was already dropping when vaccines were introduced.
The mortality rates of diseases for which vaccines were developed were dropping before those vaccines were introduced, but the infection rates weren’t dropping. For example, the introduction of irons lungs helped reduce the mortality rate for polio, but the number of people infected per year was bouncing up and down with no sign of it petering out, and polio was still paralyzing as many people even if it was killing less of them; with the introduction of vaccines it steadily declined. Another example is measles: the mortality rate for measles had significantly dropped before the introduction of the vaccines. However, the mortality rate was still 1 in 1,000 at the time its vaccine was introduced, and it’s still at 1 in 1,000, so we’d reached the point where we’d already done all we could to reduce mortality and the only way to progress further was to avoid getting measles in the first place.
vaccine ingredients
Where I live, there is an area that a developer wants to develop on that is part of a wetland, by a large lake which is also our water supply. One person for the development told me that there are companies in the past that have dumped their garbage there, so why should we worry about dumping a bunch of fill there and developing it. I’ll tell you why, Bad on top of Bad is more BAD. Just because someone has it in their kitchen, doesn’t mean we should be using it, or injecting it. I have a friend that’s a dentist who argued with me about the squalene in the flu shot, saying that squalene is something we have naturally in our nerve tissue. That’s true, but I don’t have foreign shark squalene in my nerve tissue, which is what is in the H1N1 shot. It’s not the same thing. You arguments are just plain dumb.
Re: vaccine ingredients
“Foreign” squalene? Are you for real? You are aware that squalene from any source is identical, right?
vaccine ingredients
Where I live, there is an area that a developer wants to develop on that is part of a wetland, by a large lake which is also our water supply. One person for the development told me that there are companies in the past that have dumped their garbage there, so why should we worry about dumping a bunch of fill there and developing it. I’ll tell you why, Bad on top of Bad is more BAD. Just because someone has it in their kitchen, doesn’t mean we should be using it, or injecting it. I have a friend that’s a dentist who argued with me about the squalene in the flu shot, saying that squalene is something we have naturally in our nerve tissue. That’s true, but I don’t have foreign shark squalene in my nerve tissue, which is what is in the H1N1 shot. It’s not the same thing. You arguments are just plain dumb.
Re: vaccine ingredients
“Foreign” squalene? Are you for real? You are aware that squalene from any source is identical, right?
Joomla and WordPress both run on PHP: maybe it is an unpatched install of PHP or a vulerability in that layer.
Joomla and WordPress both run on PHP: maybe it is an unpatched install of PHP or a vulerability in that layer.
Indeed such would be inconceivable.
Indeed such would be inconceivable.
< snrk > And probably demand fresh coffee all the time & harrass the young gofers when they bring it….
< snrk > And probably demand fresh coffee all the time & harrass the young gofers when they bring it….
Right you are, that line was very tight. Unfortunately, moving the last word on that line down a line set off a cascading chain of suck and fail that had me actually have to rearrange many of the sayings in the poster to get it to work. (I’m trying to make sure that no line begins or ends with a bullet, which is trickier than it sounds.)
Rather than making a new post for the new version, I’ve changed this post to show the new version. 🙂
Right you are, that line was very tight. Unfortunately, moving the last word on that line down a line set off a cascading chain of suck and fail that had me actually have to rearrange many of the sayings in the poster to get it to work. (I’m trying to make sure that no line begins or ends with a bullet, which is trickier than it sounds.)
Rather than making a new post for the new version, I’ve changed this post to show the new version. 🙂
“courage is a necessary component for success”
I disagree.
You don’t need courage to get “in the ring” in all cases. You can be successful by careful analysis, by avoiding risk, by taking the safe path.
In my work life I’m a success; I’m considered one of the top people in my company for the area I’m responsible for. I achieved that success by planning, by having contingencies, by not fucking up. Fear of making a mistake is what causes me to be so good because I do plan for the worst cases and as a result my stuff works where other people’s stuff doesn’t. People come to me for help ‘cos they know they’ll get a solution (or, at least, an answer).
I have a wonderful partner; I moved from London to New York to be with her. You might say that took courage, but it didn’t; I planned, had contingencies, fall-back positions. If it didn’t work out then I would move back. Apart from a small amount of money (the company paid for my travel and shipping, even!), I had little risk; there were minimal downsides and many upsides.
Success without courage is possible.
On the flip side, courage does not imply success.
Therefore courage is neither necessary nor sufficient.
“courage is a necessary component for success”
I disagree.
You don’t need courage to get “in the ring” in all cases. You can be successful by careful analysis, by avoiding risk, by taking the safe path.
In my work life I’m a success; I’m considered one of the top people in my company for the area I’m responsible for. I achieved that success by planning, by having contingencies, by not fucking up. Fear of making a mistake is what causes me to be so good because I do plan for the worst cases and as a result my stuff works where other people’s stuff doesn’t. People come to me for help ‘cos they know they’ll get a solution (or, at least, an answer).
I have a wonderful partner; I moved from London to New York to be with her. You might say that took courage, but it didn’t; I planned, had contingencies, fall-back positions. If it didn’t work out then I would move back. Apart from a small amount of money (the company paid for my travel and shipping, even!), I had little risk; there were minimal downsides and many upsides.
Success without courage is possible.
On the flip side, courage does not imply success.
Therefore courage is neither necessary nor sufficient.
Got figged
My Dom ordered me to fig myself while he was at work. It burned but I left it in as ordered. It’s a great sensation.
Got figged
My Dom ordered me to fig myself while he was at work. It burned but I left it in as ordered. It’s a great sensation.