When good companies go bad: how Google learned to stop worrying and love spam

Okay. So, Google’s founders have an unofficial slogan, which is a part of Google’s genetic DNA: Don’t be evil. Nice idea, that; do well and do good.

But in my experience, “don’t be evil” has become more of…well, a suggestion than a statement of corporate policy. No, I’m not talking about the way Google records information about searches or how the Goolge toolbar inserts paid links into other people’s Web sites–frankly, I don’t care about any of that.

I’m talking about something different: spam. And the fact that Google likes it.

Oh, now I’m not suggesting Google engages in spam itself; when you’re Google, you don’t need to spam. Everyone uses you anyway. I’m talking about the fact that Google supports spammers. And it’s not even a question of supporting spammers for profit, like Savvis does, or allowing people to host spam software, like MCI Worldcom does, or allowing people to host virus and malware droppers, like Peer 1 does. What those companies do is reprehensible, of course, but it’s also understandable: they profit directly from it. The spammers give them cash, they look the other way (or in Savvis’ case, actually help shield the spammers).

No, Google supports spammers, but doesn’t even do it for profit. Google supports spammers because it simply can’t be bothered to hire anyone to do anything about it.


The entire net abuse community shuddered when Google took over Deja News and started Google Groups. Google, of course, insisted that Google Groups would serve a valuable function, and would not be used by spammers; they set up an abuse address, they promised that spammers would not be tolerated, and so on, and so on.

Now, a few years later, it seems that Google’s motto has changed from “Don’t be evil’ to “Don’t bother.”

Google Groups has become, as many people predicted, a wretched hive of scum and spammers. I’ve personally seen more spam coming from Google Groups in the past few months than from any other single newsgroup source in the world–Google has dethroned the previous reigning champions of UseNet spam (Skynet.be, newsfeeds.com, and usenetnews.com) in the sheer volume of spew and in their stubborn refusal to stem the tide. In just the past few hours, I’ve collected some nuggets of Google’s outstanding offerings to the Internet community

Path: news-wrt-01.tampabay.rr.com!be1.texas.rr.com!cyclone.austin.rr.com!news.rr.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: “katama” <1DAMNYANKEE@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
Subject: $6.00 to $20,000 in 4-6 weeks.* Legal Home Business!!!
Date: 28 Mar 2005 21:12:36 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <1112073156.240870.297150@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.98.91.22
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”iso-8859-1″
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1112073160 23976 127.0.0.1 (29 Mar 2005 05:12:40 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 05:12:40 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: G2/0.2
Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
Injection-Info: o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.98.91.22;
posting-account=LZHYSg0AAADv6lTTcdbgjF8lMmEgg5LT
Xref: news-wrt-01.tampabay.rr.com comp.graphics.apps.photoshop:208649

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pay $1.00 to the following email addresses in the order they are
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1. (njekm@hotmail.com) 2. (wthampton@hotmail.com) 3. (Ldrury@rock.com)
4. (samwkfld@yahoo.com) 5. (1damnyankee@comcast.net) 6.
(katama1965@mail.com)
Step3. Email each of the six email addresses and request that you be
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Step4. After requesting that you be added to each core lists, edit
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Move everyone in the core mailing list up one position eliminating the
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Step5. Find Internet newsgroups, discussion boards, message boards,
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Path: news-wrt-01.tampabay.rr.com!be1.texas.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: “PayAce”
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
Subject: Aces around the world are joining now, are you?
Date: 24 Mar 2005 02:34:51 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <1111660491.622735.167540@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.159.185.97
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”iso-8859-1″
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1111660496 6749 127.0.0.1 (24 Mar 2005 10:34:56 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:34:56 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: G2/0.2
Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
Injection-Info: l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com; posting-host=195.159.185.97;
posting-account=1_wR2w0AAADdiHumUtG81dpT9sKA-axU
Xref: news-wrt-01.tampabay.rr.com soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm:320154

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Path: news-wrt-01.tampabay.rr.com!be1.texas.rr.com!cyclone.austin.rr.com!news.rr.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: Ron_Grossi_038@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
Subject: The Greatest News Ever!
Date: 28 Mar 2005 08:00:26 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <1112025626.663541.88550@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 172.155.111.233
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”iso-8859-1″
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1112025631 6101 127.0.0.1 (28 Mar 2005 16:00:31 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 16:00:31 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: G2/0.2
Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
Injection-Info: f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com; posting-host=172.155.111.233;
posting-account=KNzB1g0AAAD-U1V1u8MFQuDarxPGbAL-
Xref: news-wrt-01.tampabay.rr.com soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm:320352

http://www.jcil.blogspot.com << The Greatest News Ever! Google no longer reads Google Groups abuse complaints. Any reports of spam simply generate a lame auto-acknowledgement that Google is taking unspecified steps to "try to prevent large scale spam", Thank you for your note. Google does not regularly monitor or censor postings sent to Google Groups, but we do try to prevent wide-scale spam and other forms of Usenet abuse. Please be assured that the information you sent to us is being collected and taken into account. While we understand how annoying off-topic posts can be, we aren't able to pursue most complaints we receive about them. We are using the information you provide to make large-scale improvements in preventing abuse. We appreciate your help in our efforts to increase the quality of Google Groups.   Replies to this email address will not be received. If you have a general Google Groups question or wish to report a post that you suspect is illegal, please write to us at groups-support@google.com Regards, The Google Team Of course, nothing in this reply suggests or implies they will do anything about the specific case of spam that generated the complaint, and in fact they don't. One spammer, the infamous "Penis Size" spammer, has been posting thousands of times a week with complete and utter impunity for over fourteen months now. Google's not making money by supporting this little turdlet; Google just doesn't want to spend the money on staff to curb the rot.


And the rot keeps spreading. Google has purchased Blogspot, a Weblog site similar in purpose to LiveJournal; as a result, Blogspot’s new abuse policy is…well, they don’t have an abuse policy.

And the spammers have noticed. (Note to any spammers reading this: Have you had a difficult time concealing your true Web address by setting up redirectors on Yahoo Geocities, now that Geocities has started to get serious about shutting spammed sites down? Set up your redirectors on Blogspot! They’ll stay active for months, if the’re even removed at all!) Blogspot abuse is now Google abuse…which is, as you can guess, handled by /dev/null.

Which is not to say Blogspot takes no action at all. Drop a line to Blogspot support about a spammer, say by sending your spam complaint to support@blogspot.com, and they’ll take prompt and immediate action: they’ll block incoming email from your email address. Google and Blogspot simply don’t want to hear about it. If they don’t know that spammers are using their services, they don’t have to actually do anything about the spammers, right?


It’s easy to see how this happens. Abuse people cost money. Not only do they cost money, they don’t generate any revenue; in fact, an abuse person who is doing his job properly actually costs an ISP money, because he shuts down paying customers. Even in a situation where losing a user costs nothing, as is the case with Google Groups, abuse staff still cost money–money that could be spent on pizzas or Segway scooters. And, when it comes right down to it, dealing with the people who abuse your systems is just plain bothersome.

Of course, Google doesn’t like to eat its own dog food. Do a search on the Google Groups archive for any of Google’s well-known spammers, such as their “Penis Pill” spammer, and you won’t find those posts. (Go ahead, try it. Do a search on Google Groups for messages whose title is “NEW! ANCIENT METHOD ENLARGES PENIS 1 INCH IN 3 WEEKS!”–the penis pill spammer’s oft-used headline. You’ll see lots of rerferences to the spam, but not the spam itself. The Google “Penis Pill” spammer’s messages, it seems, are good enough for all us Internet users, but not good enough for Google’s own archives.)

As a result, more and more people are taking the problem of Google’s reckless and irresponsible harboring of spammers into their own hands, and dealing with it in a particularly direct way: by blocking messages posted through Google Groups. Newsreaders come equipped with killfiles, and it’s not difficult to block any message originating with Google’s wretched haven of spammers. As a long-term solution, though, this leaves a lot to be desired. ISPs who run news servers still have to pay for bandwidth and capacity to cope with Google’s spew; that’s the fundamental problem with spam, it shifts the cost of advertising from the advertiser to others.

A better solution, in my opinion, is to treat Google just like any other ISP. The UseNet has a way to reign in ISPs that permit spammers to abuse their systems; it’s called the UseNet Death Penalty. Essentially, when other system administrators have had enough of an abuser, they impose a UseNet Death Penalty, which means their news servers will no longer accept messages from the rogue ISP until it cleans up its act. The ISP responsible for the abuse is cut off from UseNet, unable to communicate with other UseNet news servers until it gets serious about stopping the abuse.

It may be that Google thinks it’s too big and important; nobody would dare suggest a UseNet Death Penalty against them. It may be that spam is simply Google’s blind spot; they’re simply unaware, however farfetched that may seem, that they have a problem. It may be that Google simply doesn’t care. In any event, as the days go by and Google Groups becomes ever a greater sewer of spam and slime, I become more and more convinced that the only thing appropriate for such an abuser is the same thing that would be done inany other case of UseNet abuse: a UseNet Death Penalty.

26 thoughts on “When good companies go bad: how Google learned to stop worrying and love spam

  1. Very good

    I rarely comment on anything like this, but I have to say that you bring up a lot of very good points. Something that, in my opinion, people don’t do enough when we talk about the Internet or technology as we use it. I really think you’ve got something there. I don’t really have anything to add, but wanted to tell you that its very informative

  2. Very good

    I rarely comment on anything like this, but I have to say that you bring up a lot of very good points. Something that, in my opinion, people don’t do enough when we talk about the Internet or technology as we use it. I really think you’ve got something there. I don’t really have anything to add, but wanted to tell you that its very informative

  3. I have sent my aquaintance the link, I have no idea how quickly he (or someone) might get back to you and I may be being overly optimistic to think that they will, but I figured it’s worth a shot.

  4. Hi there. I’m ‘s acquaintance at Google. Let me assure you, we hate spam. Why do we hate spam? Because when your service is no longer useful to your users, your users stop using your service. When you’re one of the world’s largest providers of access to information, it’s unfortunately impractical to do hand-to-hand spam fighting. We’re a big internet company, sure, but there are billions of internet users, and more than 8 billion websites in our index. We’re always working to improve. Here are a couple of links you may find interesting.

    Google has a set of Webmaster Guidelines we encourage all web site operators to review, which can be found at http://www.google.com/intl/en/webmasters/guidelines.html. If you find a site in our web search results you think is spammy (or otherwise doesn’t conform to our Webmaster Guidelines) we encourage you to submit a report at http://www.google.com/contact/spamreport.html

    I don’t do Groups support, but I know we do have a spam policy and do act on abuse reports. We’ve got a page in our help center which helps explain our policy, as well as provide instructions for reporting abusive posts, at http://groups-beta.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=7900&query=spam&topic=0&type=f

    • I think he’s not worried about spurious search results. I think he’s concerned about registered Google Groups users posting skeezy ads to Usenet, apparently in high volume and with impunity.

      He’s concerned because the people who are affected don’t necessarily have the choice to stop using Google’s service, because it’s Google’s users that are causing the problem, while many users who are not necessarily connected to Google suffer from it.

    • I don’t think you understand what I mean.

      The problem is with Google Groups users who use Google Groups to post spam on UseNet newsgroups.

      Google permits this spam; any complaints to groups-abuse@google.com go unread. There is a spammer who has been posting “Penis Size” spam through Google Groups to thousands of newsgroups for fourteen months now, with the same Google Groups ID and from the same IP address, and Google has taken no steps to address the spam.

      In fact, I don’t think Google has taken any action against a Google Groups member who spams on UseNet Newsgroups in over a year. It would be trivial to do; Google logs the IP address and username of every person posthing through Google Groups. Google simply chooses not to.

      Since Google acquired Blogspot, Google no longer takes action against Blogspot members who use spam to advertise their Blogspot sites, either.

      You say “I don’t do Groups support, but I know we do have a spam policy and do act on abuse reports.” If you act on abuse reports, why do the same people continue to post the same spam from the same Google Groups accounts with complete impunity for months?

      Actions speak louder than words. Everyone says “We hate spam”–even spam supporters like Savvis and MCI Worldcom. The proof is not in what you say, it’s in what you do. Right now, Google does absolutely nothing about UseNet spam, even when they receive literally hunderds of complaints about a single spammer.

      • Ask and ye shall receive…

        The Google Groups support lead just let me know about one new effort Google’s taken to address your concerns. This comes from one of our FAQs:

        “Yes, there are a few ways in which posting frequency is limited. One limits the number of messages posted to a single group within a short period of time. If that limit is reached, posting to that group will be frozen temporarily and you’ll be instructed to post again later.

        Another limits the number of messages a single user can post via email in a short period of time. If that limit is reached, your posting account
        will be disabled. If your account has been disabled, you can click the “contact us” link below and request that your account be reactivated. We’ll review your request, and let you know what we decide.

        We may also limit the number of messages a single user or computer can post via our website in a short period of time. If that limit is reached, posting will be frozen temporarily and you’ll be instructed to post again later.

        Please note, we are unable to provide the exact numbers that trigger these posting limits as the limits are subject to change.

        These limits are to protect the users of our service and their email accounts, our groups, and the Usenet community from poorly configured auto-responders, spammers, robots, and trolls.”

        • As anti-abuse policies go, this is appalling and abysmal, and I’m frankly quite surprised a company with Google’s reputation would have such a tepid abuse policy.

          This policy says nothing whatsoever about either reading abuse reports (which Google does not do) or about terminating long-term, flagrant, repeat spammers (which Google also does not do).

          When written in English, what this means is:

          “Spam all you want. Google, Inc. will not take any action. If you spam too much in a short period of time, you will need to wait a brief time before you begin spamming again. Fear not, though; you will never lose your posting privileges, no matter how much you spam or how many complaints we receive. You may spam tens of thousands of times over a period of many months if you please; just don’t spam too many times all at once or you’ll have to take a short breather.”

          At this point, I think it would probably be best to continue this conversation on the newsgroup news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.

  5. Hi there. I’m ‘s acquaintance at Google. Let me assure you, we hate spam. Why do we hate spam? Because when your service is no longer useful to your users, your users stop using your service. When you’re one of the world’s largest providers of access to information, it’s unfortunately impractical to do hand-to-hand spam fighting. We’re a big internet company, sure, but there are billions of internet users, and more than 8 billion websites in our index. We’re always working to improve. Here are a couple of links you may find interesting.

    Google has a set of Webmaster Guidelines we encourage all web site operators to review, which can be found at http://www.google.com/intl/en/webmasters/guidelines.html. If you find a site in our web search results you think is spammy (or otherwise doesn’t conform to our Webmaster Guidelines) we encourage you to submit a report at http://www.google.com/contact/spamreport.html

    I don’t do Groups support, but I know we do have a spam policy and do act on abuse reports. We’ve got a page in our help center which helps explain our policy, as well as provide instructions for reporting abusive posts, at http://groups-beta.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=7900&query=spam&topic=0&type=f

  6. I think I might be a little dense. Those look like Usenet posts (comp.graphics.apps.photoshop, soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm). Are you receiving these messages in your personal mailbox, or on the newsgroups only? Is the problem that the spam posts appear to have been generated and posted to Usenet through the use of the Google Groups web tool, meaning that spammers are hijacking the web-to-usenet gateway Google provides?

    • The messages in question are UseNet spam posts, coming through Google Groups. In the cases here, coming onto thousands of newsgroups through Google Groups. In the case of the “Penis Size” spammer, coming through thousands of newsgroups thousands of times over a period of over a year through Google Groups.

      Google, put simply, permits spamming on UseNet. They’re quite blase about the whole thing; they’ve received hundreds (or more) complaints against their Penis Size spammer over the last fourteen or fifteen months, and still haven’t even taken the basic step of closing his Google Groups account. (He’s been using the same IP address and username for months, but nada.)

      When Google Groups started, they would close down the Google Groups accounts of people who abused the service. Not any more–and I think that’s unfortunate. At one time, most UseNet spam was funneled through Web to UseNet services like newsfeeds.com, but as Google Groups has become more tolerant and other services have become less tolerant (skynet.be, for example, recently cracked down on UseNet abuse following a proposed UDP a couple months back), Google Groups has become the spammer’s preferred choice in UseNet spamming gateways.

  7. I think I might be a little dense. Those look like Usenet posts (comp.graphics.apps.photoshop, soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm). Are you receiving these messages in your personal mailbox, or on the newsgroups only? Is the problem that the spam posts appear to have been generated and posted to Usenet through the use of the Google Groups web tool, meaning that spammers are hijacking the web-to-usenet gateway Google provides?

  8. The messages in question are UseNet spam posts, coming through Google Groups. In the cases here, coming onto thousands of newsgroups through Google Groups. In the case of the “Penis Size” spammer, coming through thousands of newsgroups thousands of times over a period of over a year through Google Groups.

    Google, put simply, permits spamming on UseNet. They’re quite blase about the whole thing; they’ve received hundreds (or more) complaints against their Penis Size spammer over the last fourteen or fifteen months, and still haven’t even taken the basic step of closing his Google Groups account. (He’s been using the same IP address and username for months, but nada.)

    When Google Groups started, they would close down the Google Groups accounts of people who abused the service. Not any more–and I think that’s unfortunate. At one time, most UseNet spam was funneled through Web to UseNet services like newsfeeds.com, but as Google Groups has become more tolerant and other services have become less tolerant (skynet.be, for example, recently cracked down on UseNet abuse following a proposed UDP a couple months back), Google Groups has become the spammer’s preferred choice in UseNet spamming gateways.

  9. I think he’s not worried about spurious search results. I think he’s concerned about registered Google Groups users posting skeezy ads to Usenet, apparently in high volume and with impunity.

    He’s concerned because the people who are affected don’t necessarily have the choice to stop using Google’s service, because it’s Google’s users that are causing the problem, while many users who are not necessarily connected to Google suffer from it.

  10. I don’t think you understand what I mean.

    The problem is with Google Groups users who use Google Groups to post spam on UseNet newsgroups.

    Google permits this spam; any complaints to groups-abuse@google.com go unread. There is a spammer who has been posting “Penis Size” spam through Google Groups to thousands of newsgroups for fourteen months now, with the same Google Groups ID and from the same IP address, and Google has taken no steps to address the spam.

    In fact, I don’t think Google has taken any action against a Google Groups member who spams on UseNet Newsgroups in over a year. It would be trivial to do; Google logs the IP address and username of every person posthing through Google Groups. Google simply chooses not to.

    Since Google acquired Blogspot, Google no longer takes action against Blogspot members who use spam to advertise their Blogspot sites, either.

    You say “I don’t do Groups support, but I know we do have a spam policy and do act on abuse reports.” If you act on abuse reports, why do the same people continue to post the same spam from the same Google Groups accounts with complete impunity for months?

    Actions speak louder than words. Everyone says “We hate spam”–even spam supporters like Savvis and MCI Worldcom. The proof is not in what you say, it’s in what you do. Right now, Google does absolutely nothing about UseNet spam, even when they receive literally hunderds of complaints about a single spammer.

  11. Ask and ye shall receive…

    The Google Groups support lead just let me know about one new effort Google’s taken to address your concerns. This comes from one of our FAQs:

    “Yes, there are a few ways in which posting frequency is limited. One limits the number of messages posted to a single group within a short period of time. If that limit is reached, posting to that group will be frozen temporarily and you’ll be instructed to post again later.

    Another limits the number of messages a single user can post via email in a short period of time. If that limit is reached, your posting account
    will be disabled. If your account has been disabled, you can click the “contact us” link below and request that your account be reactivated. We’ll review your request, and let you know what we decide.

    We may also limit the number of messages a single user or computer can post via our website in a short period of time. If that limit is reached, posting will be frozen temporarily and you’ll be instructed to post again later.

    Please note, we are unable to provide the exact numbers that trigger these posting limits as the limits are subject to change.

    These limits are to protect the users of our service and their email accounts, our groups, and the Usenet community from poorly configured auto-responders, spammers, robots, and trolls.”

  12. As anti-abuse policies go, this is appalling and abysmal, and I’m frankly quite surprised a company with Google’s reputation would have such a tepid abuse policy.

    This policy says nothing whatsoever about either reading abuse reports (which Google does not do) or about terminating long-term, flagrant, repeat spammers (which Google also does not do).

    When written in English, what this means is:

    “Spam all you want. Google, Inc. will not take any action. If you spam too much in a short period of time, you will need to wait a brief time before you begin spamming again. Fear not, though; you will never lose your posting privileges, no matter how much you spam or how many complaints we receive. You may spam tens of thousands of times over a period of many months if you please; just don’t spam too many times all at once or you’ll have to take a short breather.”

    At this point, I think it would probably be best to continue this conversation on the newsgroup news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.

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