Some thoughts on the closet as self-imposed exile

Go to any meeting or join any mailing list on alternative subcultures, especially sexual subcultures, and one of the most common topics of conversation you’ll see again and again is the conversation about “coming out.” Do your parents know that you’re gay? Do you share the fact that you’re polyamorous with your co-workers? Do your fellow game enthusiasts know you’re kinky?

You’ll find a huge range of responses, ranging from “I am who I am and fuck anyone who doesn’t like it” to “I would never, ever dare breathe the slightest whisper to suggest that I did not conform to social norms in every way.” And you’ll find just as many reasons for these attitudes.

On the “I am completely closeted” side of the equation, many of the reasons center around a few simple ideas: fear of tangible loss (“If my ex found out I’m poly, he might try to take custody of my child,” “If my boss found out I’m gay, I’d be fired”), fear of being judged (“My parents would never approve,” “My friends would think I’m a slut if they found out I have two lovers”), fear of emotional loss (“My friends would not like me any more if they knew I was bisexual,” “My mother would disown me if she knew I have two husbands”), and that sort of thing.

On the flip side, you’ll find the same arguments often trotted out to counter these ideas (“If more people asserted their rights to child custody who were openly pagan/gay/whatever, the social structures and stereotypes that allow such people to be cast as unfit parents would fall,” “if someone loves you and then, after learning the truth about who you are as a person, withdraws that love, then that person never loved you to begin with,” “you can not love someone you do not know,” “if your friends only like you as long as you project a false image of yourself to protect their own prejudices, you need a better class of friend.”).

You’ll also see arguments in favor of remaining closeted based on the specific situation of the person in the closet (“I’m in the military,” “I work for a church that condemns homosexuality”) and arguments that rebut those arguments (“You had a choice about joining the military,” “If you’re gay and working for an organization that promotes disenfranchisement of gays, you’re shooting yourself in the foot and working against your own interests.”) And ’round and ’round it goes.

Now, I’m firmly on the side of “I am who I am and fuck anyone who doesn’t like it.” I do not see the advantage of pretending to be someone I’m not, nor see any compelling reason to protect others from the emotional consequences of their own prejudices. But that’s not actually what I’m here to talk about. I’m here to talk about a more subtle, and potentially more insidious, problem that can arise frm remaining tightly closeted, especially in polyamorous relationships–with acknowledgment to feorlen for starting me thinking along this path.


Doing the abuser’s work: the closet as exile

One of the first, earliest hallmarks of a classic abusive relationship, counsellors and mental health professionals will say, is a relationship in which one person seeks to isolate his or her partner, cutting the victim off from friends and family, controlling who the victim may socialize with, and seeking to limit the victim’s contact with other human beings.

This is a useful tool for an abuser. A situation where one or more people are denied access to contact with other people creates an environment where a person may not notice destructive, unhealthy aspects of the relationship. Often, a relationship’s dysfunctions are invisible from the inside; without someone from the outside to say “Whoa, dude, that’s totally fucked up!” it becomes easy to be blinded to even the most blatantly destructive, unhealthy things in a relationship.

Even outside the context of abuse, the presence of extra, uninvolved pairs of eyes is often useful for finding the broken parts of a relationship. Little, everyday problems are seldom unique; in a world of billions of people and fourteen thousand years of recorded history, someone somewhere has had whatever problem you’re having before. Experience is the best teacher, the saying goes..but sometimes the tuition is very high. Learning from other people’s mistakes is less costly than learning from your own. Having a support network of friends who are close to you makes solving problems of all sorts far easier.

But what happens when a person digs himself a nice little cave at the back of the closet?

In extreme cases, he does exactly what an abuser would do to him, only he does it to himself. When a person refuses to share the reality of who he is with the people around him–even with friends and family–e does more than live a lie, and he does more than project a false façade to appease the prejudices of others. He cuts himself off from his support mechanisms; he isolates himself from the very people who might be there to say “Dude, that’s fucked up!” if things start to go wrong. He creates barriers between himself and those people who might be able to help him solve problems or spot weaknesses in his relationship. He removes his own ability to bounce ideas off of others. He creates a breeding ground where unhealthy habits can fester and grow, unchecked by the light of day.

And that really sucks.


In discussions about the values of openness, i often see people arguing the perils and potential consequences of coming out. What I rarely see, though, is acknowledgment of the fact that remaining closeted has a price, as well.

And the more I think about it, the more I think the price of remaining closeted can sometimes be greater than what might at first be obvious.

The culture of secrecy can lead to a mindset of avoidance, of not talking about uncomfortable things even within the relationship. If one builds a reflexive habit of concealing the truth, it’s hard to put down that habit even when talking to someone on the inside. At worst, in the most extreme cases, it can lead to precisely the type of dark, inward-burrowing isolation that the abuser seeks to impose on a victim, only self-inflicted and therefore even more internalized.

Your life is your own. It belongs to you and to nobody else. Live it as you will–but be aware of all the potential costs of your decisions.

82 thoughts on “Some thoughts on the closet as self-imposed exile

  1. *sigh*

    One of these days I’ll actually get my own thoughts out in a clear and elegant manner before you usurp them with your more clear and more elegant writing.

    Thank you for once again saying what’s in my head.

  2. *sigh*

    One of these days I’ll actually get my own thoughts out in a clear and elegant manner before you usurp them with your more clear and more elegant writing.

    Thank you for once again saying what’s in my head.

  3. Thanks for this. Good writing, good insights, as usual.

    How do you think it’s best to proceed in cases where the loss is very real and very possible? Say a relative has *actually threatened* to take custody of your child, and you know they have the power to do it? I’m generally in favor of being as out as possible. And at the same time, I’m acutely aware of the anxiety that can bring (I’ve literally been unable to sleep some nights–not many, fortunately–due to our media work and the potential ramifications for our daughter). How do we balance real vs. perceived danger? How do we balance our own need for transparency against our children’s or other dependents’ need for safety and stability? It’s important, as you say, to judge *all* of the costs–and some of those costs aren’t to you, and might not be yours to choose.

    “Secrecy” is usually bad. “Transparency” is often good. But somewhere between the two is a grey area of “confidentiality,” “circumspection,” and “not causing unnecessary harm.” I think that’s the realm that most of us are living in most days.

    Choices, responsibility, and balance. Not easy for any of us. Thanks for sharing yours so transparently. I very much appreciate your willingness and ability to do so.

    • Hmm, it’s pretty broad to say that ‘secrecy’ is usually bad and ‘transparency’ is often good. I mean… some things there are times and places for. I didn’t and still don’t give my parents a lot of details about my relationships, monogamous or not – as a general rule. In that case it is _my_ life, and my relationship with my folks for the most part is separate from who I am sleeping with or not. Not my boss’s business either – just like most of the drama of being a parent is not something he and I talk about. We communicate with the net, and every once and a while I’ve shared a pic of my kids or mentioned something, but 98% of the time we talk about work projects. We talk kids a bit more lately, as he just had a baby some months ago, but still not that much.

      I lived with several people, eventually I married one. I got divorced. I had to put my foot down when my mom was badmouthing my ex in front of our children. Nothing about all adults consenting changes her definition of adultery, for instance. So *shrug*. I tried to explain once or twice and am back to ‘things work better if we avoid that topic’. I don’t feel in a closet about that any more than about other things that have happened in my life that I didn’t/don’t mention to her. There are kinds of support, there is a kind of relationship that we have, and that’s just… how it is.

      Delicate balance? Or just pragmatic – not everyone needs to know details about your life… not all relationships are the same, global transparency is a good way to let some jerk make trouble – and that isn’t just for non-standard situations, people can also stick their noses way into where they don’t really belong in ‘standard’ relationships and find ways to stir up shit.

      While I like the argument ‘the more people know, in theory, the more tolerant they will be’ but I am not 100% convinced. We still have folks shunning if not killing each other over basic stuff like religion, and many religions have existed for a LONG LONG time in human existence.

      • Nope, gonna stand by this. “Secrecy” is usually bad, IMO. That’s the state that describes above. However, *I* distinguished that from … a grey area of “confidentiality,” “circumspection,” and “not causing unnecessary harm.” . I think that’s what you’re describing here. There’s a different between shoving something down someone’s throat, and keeping it *secret*. “Secrecy” is more than just not mentioning something, to me. It’s the state where there are *consequences* for mentioning something to someone “outside.”

      • Hmm, it’s pretty broad to say that ‘secrecy’ is usually bad and ‘transparency’ is often good. I mean… some things there are times and places for. I didn’t and still don’t give my parents a lot of details about my relationships, monogamous or not – as a general rule.

        I think there’s a difference between “secrecy” and “circumspection.”

        Not advertising the details of your sexual life to all and sundry is not necessarily the same thing as “secrecy.” I do not introduce myself to my local neighborhood McDonald’s cashier by saying “Hi, I’m Franklin, and I’m kinky and poly! I’d like a nine-piece chicken nuggets and a large fry, please.”

        Circumspection is keeping the details of your life were they’re relevant. Secrecy is actively, deliberately, and intentionally concealing the truth about who you are from the people around you–and yeah, I think that’s usually bad.

        While I like the argument ‘the more people know, in theory, the more tolerant they will be’ but I am not 100% convinced. We still have folks shunning if not killing each other over basic stuff like religion, and many religions have existed for a LONG LONG time in human existence.

        True. There always have been and always will be bigots in the world. Nevertheless, I do believe that bigotry and prejudice thrive where the objects of that bigotry keep silent, and that it loses its grip where the objects of that bigotry are not closeted. While bigotry will never be reduced to zero, that does not mean it can not be reduced.

  4. Thanks for this. Good writing, good insights, as usual.

    How do you think it’s best to proceed in cases where the loss is very real and very possible? Say a relative has *actually threatened* to take custody of your child, and you know they have the power to do it? I’m generally in favor of being as out as possible. And at the same time, I’m acutely aware of the anxiety that can bring (I’ve literally been unable to sleep some nights–not many, fortunately–due to our media work and the potential ramifications for our daughter). How do we balance real vs. perceived danger? How do we balance our own need for transparency against our children’s or other dependents’ need for safety and stability? It’s important, as you say, to judge *all* of the costs–and some of those costs aren’t to you, and might not be yours to choose.

    “Secrecy” is usually bad. “Transparency” is often good. But somewhere between the two is a grey area of “confidentiality,” “circumspection,” and “not causing unnecessary harm.” I think that’s the realm that most of us are living in most days.

    Choices, responsibility, and balance. Not easy for any of us. Thanks for sharing yours so transparently. I very much appreciate your willingness and ability to do so.

  5. hmmm.. I don’t know how my parents wil react but dad used the word “slut” in reference t my livejournal interest list… I don’t feel the need to educate him… nor do I feel the need to tell my parents about being poly….
    I’m not being secretive- most of my friends know… but I’m not sure it’s my parents’ business….

    • i’m in the same boat. The way I look at it, I wouldn’t discuss my non-poly love life with my parents, there’s absolutely no reason to discuss the poly stuff as well. It would cause tension (where tension already exists completely unrelated to relationship stuff) in that particular relationship. I get being out and especially wanting a support structure of those who get the “real” me.. but that doesn’t need to be everyone I communicate with. Sort of the out at work dilema. I don’t parade – oh my gosh I’m sleeping with two men, just as my co worker doesn’t say oh my gosh I’m sleeping with one. It just isn’t relevant to the business world. On the other hand, I can understand why it could make someone i’m involved in uncomfortable if they have to pull back from their usual level of “outness”.

      Do I think people *should* be able to share these things without negative ramifications? Absolutely. Would more openness potentially help further societal mores in such a way that it came about sooner? Possibly. Are there very real consequences of doing so to my financial stability and further career engagement? 100% certainty.

      • don’t get me wrong… my parents are very sweet & we have a good relationship :)…. but they don’t want to (probably) & don’t need to exactly know the details of my sex life 😉
        they actually met one of my lovers & I told them he was a good friend… they thought he & his SO were a sweet couple 😉

        • That’s awesome. When the time comes for my p’s to meet my SO he’ll be introduced as a friend or date…but I won’t tell them he’s also dating x. I guess my very long winded point was that I agreed that there are a lot of people that simply don’t need to know these details 🙂

          • I think there’s a difference between “the subject just didn’t come up with the guy who bags my groceries” and “I’m not telling ANYONE ANYTHING EVER!”

            For instance, , his other sweetie and I all had to go down in person to the cell phone place to add me to their family cell plan. Now, it’s not really necessary to explain who I am simply to add another name to a cell plan. But the sales girl made an assumption and then got confused. She says she needs the wife to sign and hands it to his Other. She said she wasn’t his wife. Then the girl looked at me and asked if I was. I said no. We were very polite and just answered her questions without adding extraneous details. Then she got confused and said “oh, but I thought … nevermind”. So says “yes, you thought exactly right” and me and his other both smiled. That was it … no explanation “oh, you see, I’m dating both of them and last night I had hot kinky sex with her while tonight I plan to have hot kinky sex with her”. Just an honest, open acknowledgement, nothing more and nothing less. They could have “explained” me as a “friend” or “roomate” or “sister” or any number of things. Instead, we chose to be “out”, giving only the details that were necessary and appropriate.

            This is, I think, what he means by being out in all areas … which is not to be confused with carrying a bullhorn and announcing it to everyone we pass. It’s brought up when appropriate with no more sense of discretion than a standard monogamous relationship. Holding hands with two of his sweeties while making googly eyes at a third while walking down the boardwalk at the beach is totally normal … the way a monogamous person holding hands with his sweetie walking down the boardwalk at the beach is totally normal. He doesn’t stop everyone he passes and says “by the way, just wanted you to know that I’m dating all 3 of these women!” But it’s there for the world to see.

            I have a polydragon bumper sticker, I have a heart/infinity necklace, I keep pictures of my sweeties in my wallet, I discuss my social life with those friends and acquaintences who care to hear about my social life (*note I said “social” not “sex” life – that includes talking about my boyfriends and partners), I tell my parents who I’m dating, I flirt with my coworkers in one breath while talking about my boyfriends in the next (flirting in my workplace is not only appropriate but expected).

            I treat my romantic life as though I have the right to have my romantic life the way it is and I expect to be treated as though I have that right. That means talking about it when I want to talk about it and not talking about it when I don’t want to talk about it. If someone asks me a question, they’ll get the honest answer, no matter who they are or what I think about how they’ll respond. I do not change my answers or attitude depending upon who I talk to, nor do I worry about anyone “finding out”. If my mother doesn’t want to know who I’m fucking, she won’t ask. But she does ask if I’m “seeing anyone” and I tell her everyone I’m “seeing”. She asks if any of them are getting “serious” and I tell her which ones. I introduce her to my partners AS PARTNERS when I have the opportunity, mainly because I don’t want to *not* hold their hand and kiss them and snuggle with them just because my mother might not “get” the poly thing. If she can’t accept my partners as a valuable part of my life, she can make herself a less important and less visable part of mine.

            And my attitude about this has actually helped many of my coworkers feel more comfortable about their own sexuality, relationships and personal insecurities (not necessarily sex-related), even the monogamous ones!

          • I treat my romantic life as though I have the right to have my romantic life the way it is and I expect to be treated as though I have that right. That means talking about it when I want to talk about it and not talking about it when I don’t want to talk about it.

            That’s absolutely it. I really like the way you phrased this 🙂

      • *blink*

        did you just identify as poly?

        the curious want to know =)

        hi , you and i haven’t met (yet), but and i have been friends since college. the world gets smaller every day =).

        • Re: *blink*

          *lol* I thought you knew? I don’t generally post about it on my lj, but I’ve outed to H&S and a couple other friends, mostly online. Given I’m typing this from Tacit’s couch the answer to that question would be a resounding yes:)

          • Re: *blink*

            well, you dating tacit does not *necessarily* mean you consider yourself poly, just that you’re willing to date someone who is.

            in any case, i’m glad you’re happy =)

  6. hmmm.. I don’t know how my parents wil react but dad used the word “slut” in reference t my livejournal interest list… I don’t feel the need to educate him… nor do I feel the need to tell my parents about being poly….
    I’m not being secretive- most of my friends know… but I’m not sure it’s my parents’ business….

    • Haven’t posted this on my site–I just kinda wrote it stream-of-consciousness while I was waiting for a bigass file to upload to my server at work. 🙂

  7. *peeking out of my burrow* It’s warm & cozy in here though! Heh
    Don’t you think that there’s also “Not closeted, I just don’t share everything with everyone in my life..”

    • Don’t you think that there’s also “Not closeted, I just don’t share everything with everyone in my life..”

      Indeed. There is a continuum between “obsessive secrecy” and “complete transparency.” I definitely feel that there are advantages to being as far as possible toward the “transparency” end, though how possible that is depends on a lot of different things.

  8. *peeking out of my burrow* It’s warm & cozy in here though! Heh
    Don’t you think that there’s also “Not closeted, I just don’t share everything with everyone in my life..”

  9. It’s unfortunate that we live in a society where there are very real concerns about being out about alternative choices. I think that’s why it’s oh-so-important for those of us who can be out to be so. The more we can show positive examples of these choices, the more awareness and toleration there can come to be. At that point, people who feel they need to be in the closet about things are doing so not out of fear of external societal repercussions, but for other more personal internal reasons.

    • second that. anyone who can be out, even a little bit, is helping smooth the way for others to make their own steps out. Its kinda like becoming more ecologically responsible, only the ecology is societal rather than biological.

  10. It’s unfortunate that we live in a society where there are very real concerns about being out about alternative choices. I think that’s why it’s oh-so-important for those of us who can be out to be so. The more we can show positive examples of these choices, the more awareness and toleration there can come to be. At that point, people who feel they need to be in the closet about things are doing so not out of fear of external societal repercussions, but for other more personal internal reasons.

  11. i’m in the same boat. The way I look at it, I wouldn’t discuss my non-poly love life with my parents, there’s absolutely no reason to discuss the poly stuff as well. It would cause tension (where tension already exists completely unrelated to relationship stuff) in that particular relationship. I get being out and especially wanting a support structure of those who get the “real” me.. but that doesn’t need to be everyone I communicate with. Sort of the out at work dilema. I don’t parade – oh my gosh I’m sleeping with two men, just as my co worker doesn’t say oh my gosh I’m sleeping with one. It just isn’t relevant to the business world. On the other hand, I can understand why it could make someone i’m involved in uncomfortable if they have to pull back from their usual level of “outness”.

    Do I think people *should* be able to share these things without negative ramifications? Absolutely. Would more openness potentially help further societal mores in such a way that it came about sooner? Possibly. Are there very real consequences of doing so to my financial stability and further career engagement? 100% certainty.

  12. don’t get me wrong… my parents are very sweet & we have a good relationship :)…. but they don’t want to (probably) & don’t need to exactly know the details of my sex life 😉
    they actually met one of my lovers & I told them he was a good friend… they thought he & his SO were a sweet couple 😉

  13. I agree, good post.

    I was never out to family, work, or the internet, but I like to think that being my out to much of the SF Fandom community served the purpose for me of not being “dangerously” closeted.

    Now that I’m retired, I feel much more freedom about being out (constrained only by my partners concerns – e.g. one of my partners is still working, and we’ll never voluntarily be out to the other’s parents for what I believe are good reasons).

  14. I agree, good post.

    I was never out to family, work, or the internet, but I like to think that being my out to much of the SF Fandom community served the purpose for me of not being “dangerously” closeted.

    Now that I’m retired, I feel much more freedom about being out (constrained only by my partners concerns – e.g. one of my partners is still working, and we’ll never voluntarily be out to the other’s parents for what I believe are good reasons).

  15. That’s awesome. When the time comes for my p’s to meet my SO he’ll be introduced as a friend or date…but I won’t tell them he’s also dating x. I guess my very long winded point was that I agreed that there are a lot of people that simply don’t need to know these details 🙂

  16. second that. anyone who can be out, even a little bit, is helping smooth the way for others to make their own steps out. Its kinda like becoming more ecologically responsible, only the ecology is societal rather than biological.

  17. What a wonderful post. It really encompases things I have been thinking a lot about lately. I am going to post a link to this in my journal, I hope that you don’t mind. 🙂

  18. What a wonderful post. It really encompases things I have been thinking a lot about lately. I am going to post a link to this in my journal, I hope that you don’t mind. 🙂

  19. *blink*

    did you just identify as poly?

    the curious want to know =)

    hi , you and i haven’t met (yet), but and i have been friends since college. the world gets smaller every day =).

  20. I think there’s a difference between “the subject just didn’t come up with the guy who bags my groceries” and “I’m not telling ANYONE ANYTHING EVER!”

    For instance, , his other sweetie and I all had to go down in person to the cell phone place to add me to their family cell plan. Now, it’s not really necessary to explain who I am simply to add another name to a cell plan. But the sales girl made an assumption and then got confused. She says she needs the wife to sign and hands it to his Other. She said she wasn’t his wife. Then the girl looked at me and asked if I was. I said no. We were very polite and just answered her questions without adding extraneous details. Then she got confused and said “oh, but I thought … nevermind”. So says “yes, you thought exactly right” and me and his other both smiled. That was it … no explanation “oh, you see, I’m dating both of them and last night I had hot kinky sex with her while tonight I plan to have hot kinky sex with her”. Just an honest, open acknowledgement, nothing more and nothing less. They could have “explained” me as a “friend” or “roomate” or “sister” or any number of things. Instead, we chose to be “out”, giving only the details that were necessary and appropriate.

    This is, I think, what he means by being out in all areas … which is not to be confused with carrying a bullhorn and announcing it to everyone we pass. It’s brought up when appropriate with no more sense of discretion than a standard monogamous relationship. Holding hands with two of his sweeties while making googly eyes at a third while walking down the boardwalk at the beach is totally normal … the way a monogamous person holding hands with his sweetie walking down the boardwalk at the beach is totally normal. He doesn’t stop everyone he passes and says “by the way, just wanted you to know that I’m dating all 3 of these women!” But it’s there for the world to see.

    I have a polydragon bumper sticker, I have a heart/infinity necklace, I keep pictures of my sweeties in my wallet, I discuss my social life with those friends and acquaintences who care to hear about my social life (*note I said “social” not “sex” life – that includes talking about my boyfriends and partners), I tell my parents who I’m dating, I flirt with my coworkers in one breath while talking about my boyfriends in the next (flirting in my workplace is not only appropriate but expected).

    I treat my romantic life as though I have the right to have my romantic life the way it is and I expect to be treated as though I have that right. That means talking about it when I want to talk about it and not talking about it when I don’t want to talk about it. If someone asks me a question, they’ll get the honest answer, no matter who they are or what I think about how they’ll respond. I do not change my answers or attitude depending upon who I talk to, nor do I worry about anyone “finding out”. If my mother doesn’t want to know who I’m fucking, she won’t ask. But she does ask if I’m “seeing anyone” and I tell her everyone I’m “seeing”. She asks if any of them are getting “serious” and I tell her which ones. I introduce her to my partners AS PARTNERS when I have the opportunity, mainly because I don’t want to *not* hold their hand and kiss them and snuggle with them just because my mother might not “get” the poly thing. If she can’t accept my partners as a valuable part of my life, she can make herself a less important and less visable part of mine.

    And my attitude about this has actually helped many of my coworkers feel more comfortable about their own sexuality, relationships and personal insecurities (not necessarily sex-related), even the monogamous ones!

  21. I get rather annoyed when I hear people saying things like, “You need to come out of the closet to help make things better for all gays/polyfolk/kinky people.” A person’s private life is theirs to do with as they wish, IMO. You have the right to be poly, and you have the right not to share that with other people if that’s your choice. I don’t think it’s true that everyone would be better off out of the closet. A lot of people who do things for political reasons, to improve the world for others, end up going through untold *personal* suffering as a result. I wouldn’t fault someone for not wanting to do that.

    About the abuse thing…I think this might be true in situations where people are 100% closeted. But most of the people I know who live alternative sexual lifestyles (myself included) aren’t 100% closeted to every other human on the planet. For instance, many people are part of a poly (or gay, or kink) community, but not “out” to their families or coworkers. So you can’t just say they are cutting off all social support, that they don’t have anyone around who can point out when their relationships are becoming dysfunctional. For that matter, how is it helpful to come out to people you know won’t approve of your lifestyle? They will consider the entire relationship dysfunctional by its very nature, which isn’t particularly helpful to the person in question.

    No, I think it’s very smart to seek out social support from people who understand your situation and are willing to accept your lifestyle, rather than condemn you for the choices you make.

    Personally, I’m “out” as poly to my closest friends, and to my kids/stepkids. The former because I trust them and know they are open-minded, and the latter because they live with me (at least part time) and I”m not going to try to hide my lifestyle from them only to have them pick up on me lying. Kids are smart.

    I”m not out to my parents, who are wonderful, amazing people but who don’t support nonmonogamy. They would still love me, but it would disappoint and worry them, and I don’t feel that my coming out would really benefit anyone in that situation. They live 3,000 miles away and they don’t need to know the details of my sexual relationships. (they have met my lover, they just don’t know I’m sleeping with him)

    I”m not out to my coworkers, either, because I don’t feel it’s any of their business, and because I’m not interested in losing my job just to make a “statement.” Maybe I’m not helping my fellow polys in that, but I didn’t get into this to make the world a better place–I got into it because I fell in love with two people.

    I have no issues with people who feel that the best choice–for them–is total openness and transparency. I just don’t like it when people try to badger others int coming out when they aren’t comfortable with it.

    • red_girl much along the lines of my thoughts, thanks for stating some of that more clearly.

      Joreth, it’s fine if you’re happy saying ‘mom deal with my partners or basically don’t be as much in my life (if at all)’ but I don’t think folks are wrong if they choose otherwise. For instance, there is more than ‘accept me’ involved in my relationship with my parents – I have two kids, and my parents care about them a great deal. We tolerate the differences in lifestyles (in many ways) when we visit my folks, because we also love and accept them HOW THEY ARE, even if they are less open minded than we’d like. *shrug*

    • It’s really interesting that you hear this as “badgering.” I hear no badgering at all, just an assessment of what perceives to be costs to remaining closeted or “not out” that many people overlook. I think he has a point. And at the same time, he’s not badgering, but instead says:

      Your life is your own. It belongs to you and to nobody else. Live it as you will–but be aware of all the potential costs of your decisions.

      • I don’t know if I’d use the word badgering, actually, although I agreed with a lot of what red_girl said — I also see tacit’s points. I guess I’d have to say I don’t feel *annoyed* by his message – but in a way yes, I might feel annoyed when anyone seems to be telling me what to do. I more agreed with most of the rest of what she said – regarding getting support from people who _will give support_, for example, not those who probably would have no clue.

        But let’s look at the argument tacit presents here – and he usually does present fairly strong/extreme arguments to present his points, which I’ll admit is something I like about his writing, gives me something to really think about.

        The argument he presents here is that ‘in the closet’ _is_ isolation. He compares it to a classic abuse situation. Those are pretty strong words. Another way to put it could be ‘be out – or be in an abusive situation’. This is not a big jump as far as an interpretation goes. And yes, I could see some folks seeing that as a pretty forceful push saying that obviously it’s better or ‘right’ to be out.

        Ending the message with ‘your life is your own’ after making such a condemning argument about being in the closet, might just be politically correct wrapping around what is a pretty strong judgmental set of statements. I’m presenting this interpretation for the sake of argument, I believe tacit usually says exactly what he means. He might feel as strongly that people need to make their own decisions as he does that there are severe costs to being in the closet, and that maybe folks do not really look at those costs. Or he might be somewhat blind to other people being more private about their life and perhaps not suffering the damages he presents. I don’t know his every thought or motivation 😉 But I do find these discussions cause me to think about both sides of issues that come up.

        • The argument he presents here is that ‘in the closet’ _is_ isolation. He compares it to a classic abuse situation. Those are pretty strong words.

          The argument that I make is that secrecy, when taking to its extreme, is harmful in the same ways that the isolation an abuser imposes on a victim is harmful–it cuts you off from a social support network. Being in the closet may or may not be isolation, depending on how closeted you are–for example, being closeted to coworkers but not to friends is not the same as isolation.

          Ending the message with ‘your life is your own’ after making such a condemning argument about being in the closet, might just be politically correct wrapping around what is a pretty strong judgmental set of statements.

          Since when have I ever been politically correct? 🙂

      • I didn’t say was badgering. I said I don’t like when people try to badger others into coming out. I was speaking to the more general debate that he was referencing, particularly in the section that starts with:

        On the flip side, you’ll find the same arguments often trotted out to counter these ideas (“If more people asserted their rights to child custody who were openly pagan/gay/whatever, the social structures and stereotypes that allow such people to be cast as unfit parents would fall,

        I hear a lot of arguments like this in the poly communities I belong to, and the general tone of such arguments is that people who are closeted are doing a disservice to their community as a whole, and are therefore being unethical. So yeah, it does feel a whole lot like badgering.

        • Hmm… well, it’s too bad that this is how it’s heard. I’m sure that some of the speakers mean it that way, too. And I think it’s also true that in some cases the hearers hear it that way when it isn’t meant as such. For example, it’s possible to hear “being out is good” and not attach “…and not being out is therefore unethical.” “Being out is good” *could* be simply encouragement to those who are able to do it. Again, not to say it’s always that way, but I’m presenting another possible interpretation.

          • I have no issue with people saying “being out is good.” I have a problem with people who say, “If you are not out, then you are betraying your community.” And yes, I have heard this more than once.

    • I get rather annoyed when I hear people saying things like, “You need to come out of the closet to help make things better for all gays/polyfolk/kinky people.”

      Is anyone saying that? I see a difference between “the more people who remain closeted, the more easily prejudice and bigotry can take hold” and “you need to come out of the closet for the sake of everyone else.” Coming out of the closet is a decision each person needs to make individually, based on all the relevant factors in their own life–but the fact that choosing to remain closeted tacitly validates prejudice is one of those relevant factor. Whether it’s sufficient to offset whatever consequences you see to coming out is something you have to decide yourself.

      I”m not out to my parents, who are wonderful, amazing people but who don’t support nonmonogamy. They would still love me, but it would disappoint and worry them, and I don’t feel that my coming out would really benefit anyone in that situation.

      Do you not believe that sharing the truth about yourself with those who love you has value in its own right? (Not saying that you should come out to your parents; just curious.)

      • Is anyone saying that?

        To clarify, I didn’t mean that *you* said that. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. You mentioned the broader debate about the issue, and yes, in that debate I have heard people say that folks *should* come out of the closet for the greater good. And it bugs me.

        -but the fact that choosing to remain closeted tacitly validates prejudice is one of those relevant factor.

        Where exactly is this “fact” proven? I don’t see this as a fact at all. Choosing to keep one’s private life private isn’t a political statement. Being openly gay doesn’t make you any more opposed to prejudice than being openly straight makes you a bigot. You can stand up for people’s freedom regardless of what you yourself practice. You can support causes that promote tolerance. You can challenge people who make bigoted comments and jokes. You can support politicians who promote tolerance. It’s not hard at all to make a very clear statement about what you support, without having to share details of what actually goes on in *your* bedroom.

        Do you not believe that sharing the truth about yourself with those who love you has value in its own right?

        Depends on what that truth is. No one shares every truth about themselves with every person they love. I don’t call my parents up on the phone and give them a play-by-play of last night’s BDSM scene with my husband, for instance. (“It was SO great, mom! He had me hog tied and then came all over my face while calling me a dirty whore!”) Sometimes I think horrible things about other people, but I don’t share them with anyone because they’re just mean thoughts. Sometimes I pick my nose when no one is looking, and up until this second I’ve never shared that with anyone. Do I think being honest about that with the people I love has value? No, I really don’t.

        I share the truths about myself that I think people need to know, or things they ask about, or things that I truly want to share. Up to this point, my poly relationships haven’t fit any of those criteria where my parents are concerned. I don’t think parent-child relationships need to have the level of disclosure you’d have with, say, a lover. There are a lot of things my parents don’t know about me and a lot of things I really don’t care to know about them. And if we’re all happy with that, then I don’t see the need to create a problem where none exists.

        • Choosing to keep one’s private life private isn’t a political statement. Being openly gay doesn’t make you any more opposed to prejudice than being openly straight makes you a bigot. You can stand up for people’s freedom regardless of what you yourself practice. You can support causes that promote tolerance. You can challenge people who make bigoted comments and jokes. You can support politicians who promote tolerance. It’s not hard at all to make a very clear statement about what you support, without having to share details of what actually goes on in *your* bedroom.

          Yep, that’s true. Where I find the idea that being closeted validates prejudices, though, is in the notion that by seeking to conceal who you are, you’re tacitly stating “this is something that should be concealed.” (Note that I do see a distinction here between secrecy–the deliberate and systematic concealment of things–as opposed to privacy–the passive non-sharing of things about your life which are not relevant to the people around you. Do you see the difference?)

          Depends on what that truth is. No one shares every truth about themselves with every person they love. I don’t call my parents up on the phone and give them a play-by-play of last night’s BDSM scene with my husband, for instance.

          Mmm. I see what you mean, and I think we’re thinking two different things by “share the truth about yourself.” What I mean by that is sharing those aspects of your personality that are central to who you are as a person, rather than sharing the facts about experiences that are a result of those things. For example, the fact that I am polyamorous is a central part of my psychological makeup; a person who does not know that about me does not, in a very literal sense, know me at all. It is not, however, necessary to share information about the number of partners I have, r what activities I engage in with them. Does that make sense?

          • I’d have to agree here that being closeted validates prejudices, using ‘s distingusing defintions of “secrecy” vs. “privacy”. While it’s true that a person can “support causes that promote tolerance”, if the majority of a subculture remains closeted, then there is no reason for any particular political candidate and/or organization to support or promote tolerance for that subculture. If all the gay people remained closeted, there would not be any government officials, representatives, or organizations in existence who are currently fighting for the rights of homosexuals to have fair treatment under the law and educating society in general about the myths of homosexuality and fighting social bigotry. Enough homosexual and gay-supporters had to stand up and be recognized for politicians and organizations to know there was a cause they had to support in the first place.

            There is a very big difference between “making a very clear statement about what you support” and “having to share details of what actually goes on in *your* bedroom”. At no time in any of ‘s posts and websites and essays and lectures does he advocate announcing whether or not you gave blowjobs to your two boyfriends last night while your girlfriend ate you out. “Coming out” does NOT equal “sharing overly graphic details of one’s sex life”.

            Within the context of this journal entry, the “truth” and “coming out” have to do with being open and honest about who you are or a particular (significant) portion of who you are, not the nitty-gritty details of the acts that result from who you are. I’m out to my parents, they know I have more than one boyfriend. At no time did I ever explain to them who I was fucking, nor did I ever describe the toy drawer next to my bed. I don’t even see how that is relevent at all to a discussion of “coming out”.

            And yes, I do feel it is important to the community as a whole that those who are not subject to tangible loss by coming out, do come out. This does not mean going on Jerry Springer and having a knock-down drag out fight with the Fundies, staring in your own group-sex porno, or even answering the JC Pennys sales girl’s query of “how are you today” with “I’m doing great because I just has sex with my husband and my girlfriend”. What it means is that it would serve the community by helping to remove those tangible loss consequences from those who are actually subjected to said consequences if those of us who have nothing to lose simply be “open” . Simply being open, honest, and comfortable with oneself and one’s choices is sufficient, not shocking your mother with last night’s spanking session.

            By providing positive examples of a relationship style that is feared and persecuted against, we help those who do live under the very real fear of tangible loss, emotional loss, and fear of being judged, among others. What is needed is the ability to choose our level of privacy, not be forced, or feel we are forced to isolate ourselves from those around us, concealing and hiding large portions of who we are. But that’s not even the point of this journal entry.

            The point is that, taken to an extreme, being “closeted” (the active, deliberate and systematic concealment of things) can cause harm to the individual choosing to be closeted. In his choice of protecting himself, he may actually be doing as much, if not more, damage to his psyche, his physical health, his emotional heath, or even more simply, his quality and enjoyment of life and his relationships.

            While there can be a cost to individuals who choose to “come out”, what some people don’t realize is that there is ALSO a cost to not coming out. The details vary from situation to situation and it is up to each individual to weigh the consequences. But since not everyone is aware that this choice has consequences too, some people may not be making informed decisions and this choice may cost them something they weren’t expecting.

  22. I get rather annoyed when I hear people saying things like, “You need to come out of the closet to help make things better for all gays/polyfolk/kinky people.” A person’s private life is theirs to do with as they wish, IMO. You have the right to be poly, and you have the right not to share that with other people if that’s your choice. I don’t think it’s true that everyone would be better off out of the closet. A lot of people who do things for political reasons, to improve the world for others, end up going through untold *personal* suffering as a result. I wouldn’t fault someone for not wanting to do that.

    About the abuse thing…I think this might be true in situations where people are 100% closeted. But most of the people I know who live alternative sexual lifestyles (myself included) aren’t 100% closeted to every other human on the planet. For instance, many people are part of a poly (or gay, or kink) community, but not “out” to their families or coworkers. So you can’t just say they are cutting off all social support, that they don’t have anyone around who can point out when their relationships are becoming dysfunctional. For that matter, how is it helpful to come out to people you know won’t approve of your lifestyle? They will consider the entire relationship dysfunctional by its very nature, which isn’t particularly helpful to the person in question.

    No, I think it’s very smart to seek out social support from people who understand your situation and are willing to accept your lifestyle, rather than condemn you for the choices you make.

    Personally, I’m “out” as poly to my closest friends, and to my kids/stepkids. The former because I trust them and know they are open-minded, and the latter because they live with me (at least part time) and I”m not going to try to hide my lifestyle from them only to have them pick up on me lying. Kids are smart.

    I”m not out to my parents, who are wonderful, amazing people but who don’t support nonmonogamy. They would still love me, but it would disappoint and worry them, and I don’t feel that my coming out would really benefit anyone in that situation. They live 3,000 miles away and they don’t need to know the details of my sexual relationships. (they have met my lover, they just don’t know I’m sleeping with him)

    I”m not out to my coworkers, either, because I don’t feel it’s any of their business, and because I’m not interested in losing my job just to make a “statement.” Maybe I’m not helping my fellow polys in that, but I didn’t get into this to make the world a better place–I got into it because I fell in love with two people.

    I have no issues with people who feel that the best choice–for them–is total openness and transparency. I just don’t like it when people try to badger others int coming out when they aren’t comfortable with it.

  23. Hmm, it’s pretty broad to say that ‘secrecy’ is usually bad and ‘transparency’ is often good. I mean… some things there are times and places for. I didn’t and still don’t give my parents a lot of details about my relationships, monogamous or not – as a general rule. In that case it is _my_ life, and my relationship with my folks for the most part is separate from who I am sleeping with or not. Not my boss’s business either – just like most of the drama of being a parent is not something he and I talk about. We communicate with the net, and every once and a while I’ve shared a pic of my kids or mentioned something, but 98% of the time we talk about work projects. We talk kids a bit more lately, as he just had a baby some months ago, but still not that much.

    I lived with several people, eventually I married one. I got divorced. I had to put my foot down when my mom was badmouthing my ex in front of our children. Nothing about all adults consenting changes her definition of adultery, for instance. So *shrug*. I tried to explain once or twice and am back to ‘things work better if we avoid that topic’. I don’t feel in a closet about that any more than about other things that have happened in my life that I didn’t/don’t mention to her. There are kinds of support, there is a kind of relationship that we have, and that’s just… how it is.

    Delicate balance? Or just pragmatic – not everyone needs to know details about your life… not all relationships are the same, global transparency is a good way to let some jerk make trouble – and that isn’t just for non-standard situations, people can also stick their noses way into where they don’t really belong in ‘standard’ relationships and find ways to stir up shit.

    While I like the argument ‘the more people know, in theory, the more tolerant they will be’ but I am not 100% convinced. We still have folks shunning if not killing each other over basic stuff like religion, and many religions have existed for a LONG LONG time in human existence.

  24. red_girl much along the lines of my thoughts, thanks for stating some of that more clearly.

    Joreth, it’s fine if you’re happy saying ‘mom deal with my partners or basically don’t be as much in my life (if at all)’ but I don’t think folks are wrong if they choose otherwise. For instance, there is more than ‘accept me’ involved in my relationship with my parents – I have two kids, and my parents care about them a great deal. We tolerate the differences in lifestyles (in many ways) when we visit my folks, because we also love and accept them HOW THEY ARE, even if they are less open minded than we’d like. *shrug*

  25. Nope, gonna stand by this. “Secrecy” is usually bad, IMO. That’s the state that describes above. However, *I* distinguished that from … a grey area of “confidentiality,” “circumspection,” and “not causing unnecessary harm.” . I think that’s what you’re describing here. There’s a different between shoving something down someone’s throat, and keeping it *secret*. “Secrecy” is more than just not mentioning something, to me. It’s the state where there are *consequences* for mentioning something to someone “outside.”

  26. It’s really interesting that you hear this as “badgering.” I hear no badgering at all, just an assessment of what perceives to be costs to remaining closeted or “not out” that many people overlook. I think he has a point. And at the same time, he’s not badgering, but instead says:

    Your life is your own. It belongs to you and to nobody else. Live it as you will–but be aware of all the potential costs of your decisions.

  27. I don’t know if I’d use the word badgering, actually, although I agreed with a lot of what red_girl said — I also see tacit’s points. I guess I’d have to say I don’t feel *annoyed* by his message – but in a way yes, I might feel annoyed when anyone seems to be telling me what to do. I more agreed with most of the rest of what she said – regarding getting support from people who _will give support_, for example, not those who probably would have no clue.

    But let’s look at the argument tacit presents here – and he usually does present fairly strong/extreme arguments to present his points, which I’ll admit is something I like about his writing, gives me something to really think about.

    The argument he presents here is that ‘in the closet’ _is_ isolation. He compares it to a classic abuse situation. Those are pretty strong words. Another way to put it could be ‘be out – or be in an abusive situation’. This is not a big jump as far as an interpretation goes. And yes, I could see some folks seeing that as a pretty forceful push saying that obviously it’s better or ‘right’ to be out.

    Ending the message with ‘your life is your own’ after making such a condemning argument about being in the closet, might just be politically correct wrapping around what is a pretty strong judgmental set of statements. I’m presenting this interpretation for the sake of argument, I believe tacit usually says exactly what he means. He might feel as strongly that people need to make their own decisions as he does that there are severe costs to being in the closet, and that maybe folks do not really look at those costs. Or he might be somewhat blind to other people being more private about their life and perhaps not suffering the damages he presents. I don’t know his every thought or motivation 😉 But I do find these discussions cause me to think about both sides of issues that come up.

  28. Re: *blink*

    *lol* I thought you knew? I don’t generally post about it on my lj, but I’ve outed to H&S and a couple other friends, mostly online. Given I’m typing this from Tacit’s couch the answer to that question would be a resounding yes:)

  29. Hmm, it’s pretty broad to say that ‘secrecy’ is usually bad and ‘transparency’ is often good. I mean… some things there are times and places for. I didn’t and still don’t give my parents a lot of details about my relationships, monogamous or not – as a general rule.

    I think there’s a difference between “secrecy” and “circumspection.”

    Not advertising the details of your sexual life to all and sundry is not necessarily the same thing as “secrecy.” I do not introduce myself to my local neighborhood McDonald’s cashier by saying “Hi, I’m Franklin, and I’m kinky and poly! I’d like a nine-piece chicken nuggets and a large fry, please.”

    Circumspection is keeping the details of your life were they’re relevant. Secrecy is actively, deliberately, and intentionally concealing the truth about who you are from the people around you–and yeah, I think that’s usually bad.

    While I like the argument ‘the more people know, in theory, the more tolerant they will be’ but I am not 100% convinced. We still have folks shunning if not killing each other over basic stuff like religion, and many religions have existed for a LONG LONG time in human existence.

    True. There always have been and always will be bigots in the world. Nevertheless, I do believe that bigotry and prejudice thrive where the objects of that bigotry keep silent, and that it loses its grip where the objects of that bigotry are not closeted. While bigotry will never be reduced to zero, that does not mean it can not be reduced.

  30. Haven’t posted this on my site–I just kinda wrote it stream-of-consciousness while I was waiting for a bigass file to upload to my server at work. 🙂

  31. Don’t you think that there’s also “Not closeted, I just don’t share everything with everyone in my life..”

    Indeed. There is a continuum between “obsessive secrecy” and “complete transparency.” I definitely feel that there are advantages to being as far as possible toward the “transparency” end, though how possible that is depends on a lot of different things.

  32. I get rather annoyed when I hear people saying things like, “You need to come out of the closet to help make things better for all gays/polyfolk/kinky people.”

    Is anyone saying that? I see a difference between “the more people who remain closeted, the more easily prejudice and bigotry can take hold” and “you need to come out of the closet for the sake of everyone else.” Coming out of the closet is a decision each person needs to make individually, based on all the relevant factors in their own life–but the fact that choosing to remain closeted tacitly validates prejudice is one of those relevant factor. Whether it’s sufficient to offset whatever consequences you see to coming out is something you have to decide yourself.

    I”m not out to my parents, who are wonderful, amazing people but who don’t support nonmonogamy. They would still love me, but it would disappoint and worry them, and I don’t feel that my coming out would really benefit anyone in that situation.

    Do you not believe that sharing the truth about yourself with those who love you has value in its own right? (Not saying that you should come out to your parents; just curious.)

  33. The argument he presents here is that ‘in the closet’ _is_ isolation. He compares it to a classic abuse situation. Those are pretty strong words.

    The argument that I make is that secrecy, when taking to its extreme, is harmful in the same ways that the isolation an abuser imposes on a victim is harmful–it cuts you off from a social support network. Being in the closet may or may not be isolation, depending on how closeted you are–for example, being closeted to coworkers but not to friends is not the same as isolation.

    Ending the message with ‘your life is your own’ after making such a condemning argument about being in the closet, might just be politically correct wrapping around what is a pretty strong judgmental set of statements.

    Since when have I ever been politically correct? 🙂

  34. I treat my romantic life as though I have the right to have my romantic life the way it is and I expect to be treated as though I have that right. That means talking about it when I want to talk about it and not talking about it when I don’t want to talk about it.

    That’s absolutely it. I really like the way you phrased this 🙂

  35. I didn’t say was badgering. I said I don’t like when people try to badger others into coming out. I was speaking to the more general debate that he was referencing, particularly in the section that starts with:

    On the flip side, you’ll find the same arguments often trotted out to counter these ideas (“If more people asserted their rights to child custody who were openly pagan/gay/whatever, the social structures and stereotypes that allow such people to be cast as unfit parents would fall,

    I hear a lot of arguments like this in the poly communities I belong to, and the general tone of such arguments is that people who are closeted are doing a disservice to their community as a whole, and are therefore being unethical. So yeah, it does feel a whole lot like badgering.

  36. Hmm… well, it’s too bad that this is how it’s heard. I’m sure that some of the speakers mean it that way, too. And I think it’s also true that in some cases the hearers hear it that way when it isn’t meant as such. For example, it’s possible to hear “being out is good” and not attach “…and not being out is therefore unethical.” “Being out is good” *could* be simply encouragement to those who are able to do it. Again, not to say it’s always that way, but I’m presenting another possible interpretation.

  37. Re: *blink*

    well, you dating tacit does not *necessarily* mean you consider yourself poly, just that you’re willing to date someone who is.

    in any case, i’m glad you’re happy =)

  38. Is anyone saying that?

    To clarify, I didn’t mean that *you* said that. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. You mentioned the broader debate about the issue, and yes, in that debate I have heard people say that folks *should* come out of the closet for the greater good. And it bugs me.

    -but the fact that choosing to remain closeted tacitly validates prejudice is one of those relevant factor.

    Where exactly is this “fact” proven? I don’t see this as a fact at all. Choosing to keep one’s private life private isn’t a political statement. Being openly gay doesn’t make you any more opposed to prejudice than being openly straight makes you a bigot. You can stand up for people’s freedom regardless of what you yourself practice. You can support causes that promote tolerance. You can challenge people who make bigoted comments and jokes. You can support politicians who promote tolerance. It’s not hard at all to make a very clear statement about what you support, without having to share details of what actually goes on in *your* bedroom.

    Do you not believe that sharing the truth about yourself with those who love you has value in its own right?

    Depends on what that truth is. No one shares every truth about themselves with every person they love. I don’t call my parents up on the phone and give them a play-by-play of last night’s BDSM scene with my husband, for instance. (“It was SO great, mom! He had me hog tied and then came all over my face while calling me a dirty whore!”) Sometimes I think horrible things about other people, but I don’t share them with anyone because they’re just mean thoughts. Sometimes I pick my nose when no one is looking, and up until this second I’ve never shared that with anyone. Do I think being honest about that with the people I love has value? No, I really don’t.

    I share the truths about myself that I think people need to know, or things they ask about, or things that I truly want to share. Up to this point, my poly relationships haven’t fit any of those criteria where my parents are concerned. I don’t think parent-child relationships need to have the level of disclosure you’d have with, say, a lover. There are a lot of things my parents don’t know about me and a lot of things I really don’t care to know about them. And if we’re all happy with that, then I don’t see the need to create a problem where none exists.

  39. I have no issue with people saying “being out is good.” I have a problem with people who say, “If you are not out, then you are betraying your community.” And yes, I have heard this more than once.

  40. Choosing to keep one’s private life private isn’t a political statement. Being openly gay doesn’t make you any more opposed to prejudice than being openly straight makes you a bigot. You can stand up for people’s freedom regardless of what you yourself practice. You can support causes that promote tolerance. You can challenge people who make bigoted comments and jokes. You can support politicians who promote tolerance. It’s not hard at all to make a very clear statement about what you support, without having to share details of what actually goes on in *your* bedroom.

    Yep, that’s true. Where I find the idea that being closeted validates prejudices, though, is in the notion that by seeking to conceal who you are, you’re tacitly stating “this is something that should be concealed.” (Note that I do see a distinction here between secrecy–the deliberate and systematic concealment of things–as opposed to privacy–the passive non-sharing of things about your life which are not relevant to the people around you. Do you see the difference?)

    Depends on what that truth is. No one shares every truth about themselves with every person they love. I don’t call my parents up on the phone and give them a play-by-play of last night’s BDSM scene with my husband, for instance.

    Mmm. I see what you mean, and I think we’re thinking two different things by “share the truth about yourself.” What I mean by that is sharing those aspects of your personality that are central to who you are as a person, rather than sharing the facts about experiences that are a result of those things. For example, the fact that I am polyamorous is a central part of my psychological makeup; a person who does not know that about me does not, in a very literal sense, know me at all. It is not, however, necessary to share information about the number of partners I have, r what activities I engage in with them. Does that make sense?

  41. I’d have to agree here that being closeted validates prejudices, using ‘s distingusing defintions of “secrecy” vs. “privacy”. While it’s true that a person can “support causes that promote tolerance”, if the majority of a subculture remains closeted, then there is no reason for any particular political candidate and/or organization to support or promote tolerance for that subculture. If all the gay people remained closeted, there would not be any government officials, representatives, or organizations in existence who are currently fighting for the rights of homosexuals to have fair treatment under the law and educating society in general about the myths of homosexuality and fighting social bigotry. Enough homosexual and gay-supporters had to stand up and be recognized for politicians and organizations to know there was a cause they had to support in the first place.

    There is a very big difference between “making a very clear statement about what you support” and “having to share details of what actually goes on in *your* bedroom”. At no time in any of ‘s posts and websites and essays and lectures does he advocate announcing whether or not you gave blowjobs to your two boyfriends last night while your girlfriend ate you out. “Coming out” does NOT equal “sharing overly graphic details of one’s sex life”.

    Within the context of this journal entry, the “truth” and “coming out” have to do with being open and honest about who you are or a particular (significant) portion of who you are, not the nitty-gritty details of the acts that result from who you are. I’m out to my parents, they know I have more than one boyfriend. At no time did I ever explain to them who I was fucking, nor did I ever describe the toy drawer next to my bed. I don’t even see how that is relevent at all to a discussion of “coming out”.

    And yes, I do feel it is important to the community as a whole that those who are not subject to tangible loss by coming out, do come out. This does not mean going on Jerry Springer and having a knock-down drag out fight with the Fundies, staring in your own group-sex porno, or even answering the JC Pennys sales girl’s query of “how are you today” with “I’m doing great because I just has sex with my husband and my girlfriend”. What it means is that it would serve the community by helping to remove those tangible loss consequences from those who are actually subjected to said consequences if those of us who have nothing to lose simply be “open” . Simply being open, honest, and comfortable with oneself and one’s choices is sufficient, not shocking your mother with last night’s spanking session.

    By providing positive examples of a relationship style that is feared and persecuted against, we help those who do live under the very real fear of tangible loss, emotional loss, and fear of being judged, among others. What is needed is the ability to choose our level of privacy, not be forced, or feel we are forced to isolate ourselves from those around us, concealing and hiding large portions of who we are. But that’s not even the point of this journal entry.

    The point is that, taken to an extreme, being “closeted” (the active, deliberate and systematic concealment of things) can cause harm to the individual choosing to be closeted. In his choice of protecting himself, he may actually be doing as much, if not more, damage to his psyche, his physical health, his emotional heath, or even more simply, his quality and enjoyment of life and his relationships.

    While there can be a cost to individuals who choose to “come out”, what some people don’t realize is that there is ALSO a cost to not coming out. The details vary from situation to situation and it is up to each individual to weigh the consequences. But since not everyone is aware that this choice has consequences too, some people may not be making informed decisions and this choice may cost them something they weren’t expecting.

  42. Acceptance

    “We all deeply desire to be loved for who we are. However, one of the greatest challenges to that goal is risking being known. If you don’t risk telling your lover who you are, you won’t feel accepted. If you feel guilty, you may tell yourself that you’re not okay the way you are. Nevertheless, you are fine the way you are… and you are capable of finding others who accept you… The first step, however, is up to you. You will not find acceptance without taking the risk of being known. It is my hope that we may all risk being known so we don’t perpetuate a world of relationships which are incomplete, conditional and limited by fear. We deserve better.” ~ from Spiritual Polyamory by Mystic Life

  43. Acceptance

    “We all deeply desire to be loved for who we are. However, one of the greatest challenges to that goal is risking being known. If you don’t risk telling your lover who you are, you won’t feel accepted. If you feel guilty, you may tell yourself that you’re not okay the way you are. Nevertheless, you are fine the way you are… and you are capable of finding others who accept you… The first step, however, is up to you. You will not find acceptance without taking the risk of being known. It is my hope that we may all risk being known so we don’t perpetuate a world of relationships which are incomplete, conditional and limited by fear. We deserve better.” ~ from Spiritual Polyamory by Mystic Life

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